Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
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Studio Sessions
31. Pressure, Art, and Dopamine: Navigating Modern Life
After an hour of discussion, we realized the recorder wasn't on. We regrouped and continued...
We explored how pressure, despite its challenges, can drive personal growth when embraced. This led to a broader conversation about human connections that transcend age and cultural boundaries. We discussed how engaging in substantive conversations about life, art, and shared experiences can bridge generational gaps.
Our talk shifted to the complexities of modern media consumption, from the appeal of quick entertainment to the immersive experience of watching classic films in theaters. We considered how repertory cinemas offer unique opportunities to engage with older movies. This prompted reflection on how our relationships with media have evolved over time, and the balance between engaging with thought-provoking art and enjoying lighter content.
We delved into the nature of creativity, examining the fatigue that comes from intense creative work and its impact on our leisure choices. Throughout the conversation, we grappled with finding meaning in our entertainment, creative pursuits, and discussions. We kept returning to the idea that certain conversations and shared understandings seem to touch on timeless aspects of the human experience. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
And it had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summons.
Alex:And I feel like we also. I remember the quote. The quote is pressure is a privilege, and it's like a goofy quote, but it's so. It hit me like a brick today and I just I think about how much I tried to just like, oh, I don't want there to be any like stress or pressure, and how much I try to design around that in my day to day and it's like I think that pretty much just guarantees that you're not going to grow if you try to block yourself off from that.
Matt:So I have a similar.
Alex:I want to start embracing that a little more. You know like, embrace the pressure, embrace like not to where I'm like dying, you know obviously, but especially in my work, just like embrace that and feel that a little more.
Matt:I have a saying that I use, and I sometimes say it to my wife, more in the literal meaning of the of the word, but then I also apply it to this as well, but the I think I use it in a screenplay. That's when it started, back when I was in la um, like a grisly cop character said it, and uh and uh scene that I really liked, but uh, the line was you know, pain is a choice, pain is a choice. And he's talking to like toxic masculinity and all that. Like, you know, don't be a wuss. Like, yeah, it hurts, but you can choose for it not to. Yeah, but I've God that's.
Alex:but it's so real, like I mean all we've talked about tonight, especially in like pre-show and everything, just like it is like that's just one reaction you could have to the situation at hand.
Matt:And that's like you know, your kid's going to stay home sick, or your wheels get ripped off your car and the pain that you're feeling from that. I think there's an argument that how painful it is is a choice. Yeah, you can do things to embrace your new reality. Yeah, you can try to look at the silver lining of it Right.
Matt:Which you've already just mentioned. In your instance that there was, maybe there is a little. You know what I mean, yeah. In your instance that there was, maybe there is a little. You know what I mean, yeah, and you start to sort of track as things play out more long-term. A lot of times you can look back on it and go that needed to happen.
Alex:That had a positive outcome.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a net win.
Alex:I think most things end up being net wins.
Matt:I think so too.
Alex:But I also think that if you embrace, you almost have to look like apply it, act as is Sure or act as if, um, rather, you almost have to apply that mindset in order for things to play out that way. Because I do know people who kind of do approach everything with a negative attitude and I, you know, I don't want to be like oh, don't be a negative, but I mean, negativity is toxic, negativity spreads quickly and I think if you, if you and if there's anybody out there who is doubtful of this, like just try it, like try it for a week, no matter what happens. Just always try to find like what's an optimistic outcome. We listened to something recently, a podcast Audrey and I did about cynicism.
Alex:Yeah, just like how cynics, like cynics get put on this pedestal is like yeah like the cynical genius or whatever pedestal is like, yeah, like the cynical genius or whatever, and in reality and in in statistically like that doesn't match up with what actually happens. Usually cynics are, um, they have a much harder time in life. They have a much uh, you know less fulfilling whatever. It is, um, and you know that might not be the narrative that's applied to it, but it is the reality and I think you know you get to choose how you want to react to a situation and it might not always be obvious at first, and we talked about this like the difference between intellectually responding and like physical response, um, but yeah, I think it's important to try to maintain positive outlook.
Matt:Well, and I think you, you know there's there's things that are zeitgeist, that, uh, that shade, that as well. You know, I think of, um, people who frame this way of thinking in terms of sports right, you're on offense or you're on defense the cynic to me, the image that I come up with is they have a lot of closed doors, yeah, versus someone like me who might come across as that's the most introverted, or extroverted introvert, but sometimes I met in my entire life.
Matt:But sometimes I think I come, I could come across as and I don't really care how I come across, but sometimes I think and I'm not like Mr Every door in my spiritual being is open and super positive and all that. I have all my, you know, areas of cynicism and negative thoughts and fears and all that stuff, but overall I think definitely, uh, glass half full versus half empty and I would agree.
Alex:I think. I think that's part of the reason you and I get along. So well, because we always come out of. We're like, we're like optimists, yeah, with like a little cynical side. Yeah, a little bit and then you get us together and it's just the optimism right overpowers. That's right, whereas like on an individual level.
Alex:The cynicism is kind of always like oh hey, I'm here yeah, and so you get us together and we always leave it feeling more optimistic than cynical, and I think it's part of the reason why I mean, we've had, you know, hundreds and hundreds of hours of conversation at this point.
Alex:Yeah, um and yeah, I feel like every time we do, I always end up leaving feeling a little bit. Hundreds and hundreds of hours of conversation at this point. Yeah, Um, and yeah, I feel like every time we do, I always end up leaving feeling a little bit more right. You know just okay with my place in the world. Yes, yeah, it's like it's a good balance.
Matt:You got to find people like that too Well especially, we're at different stages of our life, age wise, you know.
Alex:I've, which is so funny because I never think about your age until I think about your age, like, yeah, I mean we're substantially different in like a decade different, easily.
Matt:Yeah, and almost two.
Alex:No, um, and I yeah, yeah, it's just it. It's not something that I really yeah I think I'm.
Matt:I'm just like sort of age invisible, yeah there's something that people are always shocked by how old I am yeah and, uh, I think with you kids I don't know I can merge between generations or something. I don't know what it is.
Alex:I feel like when you're having a conversation about things that actually matter.
Matt:Yeah.
Alex:And I don't want to. That sounds really bad, like things that actually matter. But I do think when you're, when you are, you've kind of cut out. It helps that you and I have a lot of similar interests and things like that. But all of that aside, when you do pull out a lot of like the bullshit of a day-to-day mundane conversation, yeah, and just like what.
Matt:What's going on culturally? You know younger people are going to be tapped into different things like I feel it uh uh, definitely a gulf when I see you whipping through ai stuff like and I'm like my dad watching me play a video game like what the hell is this? You know, not like, like uh I know how to play pinball son. What's?
Speaker 1:this, what's this? Tech mobile.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know but you know what I mean. So like there's, there's moments like that where I'm like I'm like, yeah, alex is like 28 years older of, however, you are like um, like he's, he's doing things that I don't easily. Yeah, do and figure and can figure out, but then you also do stuff with old shit too yeah, a lot of typewriters, honestly a lot more shit with old stuff like yeah no, I mean, I think, um, yeah, that's part of that's just so.
Matt:Yeah, that's an interest of mine, yeah, but you find those areas of sort of timelessness right conversations about life issues and things that are going on, books that are from the past, from maybe especially mostly the past.
Speaker 1:The future. We're going to see movies from the 30s together.
Matt:So we didn't go see Alien Romulus, but we went and saw Citizen Kane.
Alex:Holy cow, should we talk about that on this podcast?
Matt:I kept thinking of a title for something, because after we talked I was like this is you know, this is the, the sort of uh, the lame title. But it's like I, something like uh, I saw citizen k for the third time, for the first time. Yeah, something, yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's pretty much sums it up like I've seen it.
Alex:Yeah, it was. I'd seen it a couple of times prior and but that's where the age melts away.
Matt:Right Cause we have a little bit of a sidewalk talk and we wanted to talk more but I had to go home. But we can go see a movie like that and then have a conversation that makes our age and our life experiences Obviously we bring to bear on the conversation, but they're not. We're not thinking about them while we talk about this. You know, profound piece of work, yeah, I think.
Alex:I think it is like there's a quality of timelessness that you can have. And if I honestly I think you should, you know, I honestly I think you should, you know I have another really close friend who's 85. Yeah, and like we can have a conversation Right and, like I told, I talked to him about like blockchain and he was like all right, I don't know about this, I don't know.
Alex:But no, I mean, but you know, you get into. You can get into a conversation about um great literature or film that really moved you, um well, the underlying, the underlying spirit of blockchain you could talk about decentralization like yeah, like he can understand that. He may not understand the details and technological whatever of blockchain, but he could be like everything I think everything I guess the bigger picture point is everything can be broken down into like a core element. Yeah, that is essentially timeless, that's right and and universally.
Matt:Yeah, you know, we can connect to it, you know and you've got to.
Alex:You've got to cut through the culture like there's always going to be, like culture and that's right pr spin kind of like containers on everything right and you've got to figure out a way to cut through all of that. Um, I mean, I don't, it's not like I have to sit here and figure out, like, how am I going to relate to matt? Like?
Matt:we just talk, right yeah it just happens.
Alex:I mean, a lot of people in my life, I think, think, are like that Sure, I don't really try to the way I found the most success and I think you know this is a thing that great art has this quality to is you're not? I try to not have, like, I just have the conversation that I want to have, yeah, and you know, I'm not going to change my. You know what I feel like talking about or what I'm interested in, like I might you know, yeah, I might try to align our interests a little bit or something, but if I have an observation about something I'm not going to be like, well, let me make assumptions about this person I'm just going to.
Alex:Hey, I feel like this because of this and I saw this and notice this, and you know what I feel like most people, when you just level with them and just are open and authentic, they get it. Yeah, and they're, they're gonna, they're gonna kind of be there with you.
Matt:They're going to be able to especially if they're able to see past the surface and talk about the underlying elements. Yeah, of it, and and that is a challenge sometimes- have conversations with people where it's hard to get past surface culture, the weather, yeah, sports game that was on last weekend, like, like, okay, like, but what's?
Alex:you know what?
Matt:do you think about what's going on underneath all that?
Alex:yeah, you know, and some people just I have relationships with some people I feel like who it's really tough to get past that and you can have good relationships because, you can talk about video games or sports or whatever, and
Matt:like that's satisfying enough, but you know, the the deeper, more meaningful connections I have is where we start looking below those layers Go beyond.
Alex:I think there's definitely people who oh yeah, that's just the guy I talk about football with or that's whatever Chew the fat with. Yeah, typically that may be a person at a coffee shop or a person at the gym or whatever. But yeah, I think most people are open to if you're willing to just bring it up in conversation like something a little deeper. Most people are. I love asking the question like how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1:Like it's.
Alex:It's a goofy, but most people have like everybody's, for the most part is they've got some depth to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Alex:And I think we don't give that enough opportunity to come out most of the time. Um, I do think, though, there is a new phenomenon that I've observed and this is more in the last few years where some people you never have their attention. I don't know if that's something that you've observed too.
Matt:There are times where someone has asked me a question and it's not some big, profound question and I can be overly verbose, of, of course, but I'll start giving an answer and I can feel them disconnect yeah now they might still be looking at me or nodding their head or whatever, but they're not really listening yeah um, in like a bad way. Now.
Matt:I've had conversations with you where something you say gets me going like yeah that's something I want and you're like off on a new and I'm processing that and I'm listening to you, yeah, but it's not as deep as it should be. Yeah, it's still engaged, it's still processing what you're saying, but it's a little bit more on the surface and not like really understanding the depth of what you're saying.
Alex:Not that there's a like boundless depth, but the beauty of having this podcast and edit.
Matt:You know you editing it but then me pulling clips. You know there's been times where you've made a point or asked a question, or you know there's there's a context that you've set up and I respond, where I'm literally watching myself in final cut, where where I'll respond to you in a way that is a little generic, because I and I remember oh, you were thinking about this and while you're clocking what Alex is saying and you could give a generic response that shows that you heard what he said, you're clocking what Alex is saying and you could give a generic response that shows that you've heard what he said. You're not really understanding what he's saying.
Alex:You're playing by the rules of the conversation but you're not, you're not really listening. Likewise. I'm sure that that's happened.
Matt:We've done 30 hours of Because I'll sit there and watch it back and be like oh, that's what he was asking or that's what he was getting at, or that's what he was trying to pull out of me. I'm like.
Alex:I totally missed that. I noticed that in conversation a lot where, especially in this, more like and you were not the person I'm sure there's not one person it's just some phenomenon that I've noticed where I'll have a conversation yes, and typically when I say it and I'll get a response, and maybe this is something I should work on. But I don't double down on it, right, like cause you don't ever want, like part of me feels like oh, am I being condescending by doubling down on the?
Speaker 1:question.
Alex:Um, so I I tend not to and, yeah, it really takes the steam out of a conversation.
Matt:I don't think that happens when we're having conversation very much, and also I think there's a level of familiarity where, like, we're kind of I don't know we kind of have experienced each other in different moods and modes and but there's, there is certainly and I have other friends, or even speaking to my wife where you feel yourself happily getting pulled in further and further to the lower circles of the depths of the conversation, the exchange, the ideas that you're working through. For the people that I was referencing that, I feel them drift away right away. For the people that I was referencing that I feel them drift away right away. Yeah, they're more focused on, I think, what state they want to be in. Like, okay, I was asking a question and I'm kind of interested in the answer, but not that interested.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:I I'd like to go back to watching television or doing my own thing or whatever. There's nothing wrong with that but I'm someone that if you're going to ask me a question, I'm going to go hard on it because I think you're as curious as I am when I ask a question, but they're not. So I have to learn with those people. This is personality cartography. I have to kind of map those tendencies and go all right when this person asks me a question.
Alex:They just need the quick answer yeah, yeah, in and out.
Matt:They don't want well this all started in 1918, so we'll get to the present Let me set up the context.
Alex:Let's set the stage and then we're going to build off of that.
Matt:So the Spanish flu? How does that relate to the lights that they use in that movie?
Alex:that we saw like oh boy, no, I think it's. You know. Taking it back to the dopamine thing, it's just, I think that's almost that's a side effect of being too addicted to like a you know, quick dopamine. Yeah, like you hear about people doing like the dopamine fasts or whatever, where they're just completely like unhooked from anything interesting and you hear it's actually really interesting because, like people will say, oh, time slows down. Yeah, like time?
Alex:yes, seems to really slow down and you become much more aware of each moment. But then also doing that for a couple of weeks or, you know, whatever, some people are crazy about it, sure, I mean this is like food and music and visual stimulation and they're like, yeah, and then you'll listen to like a shitty song on a radio at a pub and it's like you're in, you know, having the greatest religious experience of your life, and I'm like there's a bit of me that understands, I think, when you, I think it's difficult when we're in this world where we're just constantly being fed dopamine and I mean, this is the. You know, there's some. There's a bit of hypocrisy in what I'm saying, because I I definitely am. You know, I can get sucked down.
Alex:A youtube scroll, you know, doom scroll or whatever, um, and I try to get out of that as much, as as much as possible. But, um, when you do get away from it, you're able to engage with stuff on such a deeper level. So I started watching the wire a couple of weeks ago and I think we covered this a little in the last episode and it's like that was a show that demanded my attention in a way that I wasn't willing to give it. When I tried to watch it prior, and now that I've given it my attention, it's just like it blows me away. It's not a hot take to be like all the wires good right.
Alex:Like obviously it's a great, but it really when you give it the proper attention and I think that the proper amount of like dopamine disconnect well, you're present with it, yeah. You're present with it. Yeah, you're present with it. You're there moment to moment to moment. You're not sitting there watching what it's going to give you yeah, you're not thinking about like what am I going to do after this?
Matt:you're like, oh what, what's happening exactly?
Alex:you're just there and that's all that there is. It's amazing, yeah, and the same with god. That's what's so good about seeing movies in the theater.
Matt:I was just saying the same thought popped into my head Because we saw Citizen Kane. It's an immersive experience.
Alex:That was the first time I'd seen it in the theater. Yeah, and there's nowhere to go when you're in the theater you can't get. Yeah, no phone, no conversation and it's not even like if we're watching a movie here. It's not like I'm in my phone. No, but you can pause it.
Matt:You can get up, you can talk to Audrey, you can you know you can.
Alex:There's just more of a surrounding. You're in a dark theater.
Matt:You're there you have. There are other things that are accessible even if you don't access them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:It's just a different state, Absolutely, and you're right. I had the on when I was at home. There might have been moments where I checked out. There might have been moments where I was like I kind of have to work hard to get this.
Speaker 1:I kind of just want to watch somebody flip through a record at a thrift store and just not even think about anything.
Matt:Because that's almost a form of dopamine.
Alex:And it absolutely is. And I get the same like oh man, a form of dopamine, like well, and it absolutely is you know. And I get the same like oh man, I kind of just rather listen to like a podcast, or I kind of just rather do, I want to get in a vibe.
Matt:Yeah, Just, I just want to.
Alex:I want to have something that's like and I think part of that is what was causing all this dissatisfaction in my like, comfortably numb to like you know, little bits of like IV drip dopamine. Just here's a little, here's a little. Here's a little. What's the next one? And then you're sitting there and you're being present for the job or whatever, and you're just kind of in the moment, but you're not experiencing anything, you're not giving anything, your attention properly, nothing. And you can me personally, like I can only handle so many months of that. Before it was just like starting to tear my soul apart. Yep and um, yeah, I think it's a great experience watching somebody flip through and then find that one record and, um, to give context to what we're talking about, you were talking about the. There's videos where people yeah, they film themselves.
Matt:You know they do a little intro. They film themselves going to thrift stores, estate sales, whatever, and they literally run the video. You know the the the heart of the video is them quietly flipping through a record bin with like a hundred records and you see what they pull out, what they don't, and you you think about oh, what's that record? Or I would have pulled that one, or the. Oh, they missed that one. That's really valuable. It's um, it's little dopamine hits, because every time they flip the record it be yeah, some awesome thing, yeah. Or if they're flipping through the crappiest records that you see at every thrift store and all of a sudden there's a fleetwood mac record.
Matt:You're like holy shit and yeah, you get this little, this little hit yeah and um so like. Like I was saying, you know it is something that kind of is a little mindless because you're not working to understand it, but you are just at the feed for dopamine going. When are they going to give me a little bump here? Ready for a little bump?
Alex:Oh, flip it back. Oh shit, we saw a meme the other day. It was like two lab mice that escaped from the lab. They're like you know. I'm glad to be out of that place, but I would love to hit that cocaine button again, um now real quick.
Matt:I have one thing so the thing that you said about. We talked about citizen king. To me, this is the greatest argument for repertory theater out there, because some of the most profound movie-going experiences I've had are with older films, like when I went to Alamo Drafthouse to see the Kubrick series and I saw Barry Lyndon Long-ass movie right, amazing movie though, holy shit. Yeah, especially for me.
Alex:I mean most of the movies that I, that I love, are from the 40s, 50s, 60s and then probably the 70s is my favorite decade, yeah, but I mean, like you know, I mean the 80s.
Alex:There's plenty of good things yeah um, but yeah, no, most of the films that I love are, I mean, I literally have such a disconnect that people are like, oh yeah, that's from 1980. Yeah, or like that's from 1974. And I'm like, oh okay, 74. And then they're like 74. Yeah, that's 50 years ago. And I'm just like, what do you mean? I, I'm living there right now.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, and and and there's something about that too, like knowing it's an old movie. You know, I'm 45 years old. Like. I've been watching movies since, basically, et came out in 1983, right, like, so I've watched. I've been around for plenty of movies that now we look back are quote-unquote old, right, Anything before that Called classics, yeah, classics Anything before that. There's something that creeps into my head where it's like oh, this is, this is an old thing. Yeah, so there's like a, there's like a permission that I give myself to check out or even turn it off if it's not grabbing me. But then a newer movie. There's something about the newness of it that makes it an automatic thing to just to watch it. All this is I don't want this to sound make me sound like I'm like a dumb audience member that I'm, and this goes back to dopamine we are dumb audience members at the end of the day oh, this movie's old, therefore I can't it.
Matt:There's something about an older movie that, at least with my brain, makes me feel like it's more okay to quit it than it is for a newer movie.
Matt:I don't know why, I don't know what that is, but it's like it's an older movie, like it's just you're just, it's just not as easy for you to watch these because it's an older film. Yeah, and what I love about repertory theater is what you said. You're sort of you know I don't want to make it sound like I have to be trapped to sit and pay attention to citizen.
Matt:Kane, but there's a reason I had never seen it. I mean, I went to film film school and you've never seen Citizen Kane. You should have your degree revoked.
Alex:But Citizen Kane is popular. It's like, oh, this is the greatest film ever made, but I feel like there's actually a very small amount of people that actually think it's one of the greatest films ever made. I feel like it's the victim of its own legend in a way.
Matt:Well, and it might be a victim too of people watching it at home. Now, if I watched it at home, I don't know that I would give it the attention that I gave it in the theater. Yeah, I was just completely engrossed in that movie the whole time. And I do find that and this is a shortcoming of mine, this is a criticism of mine that when something is older and I'm watching it at home, I'm less focused on it, even though it's a masterpiece.
Matt:I want to dive into this and I'm concerned about that with the Wire, because I recall the Wire. You know it's shot on. I don't know that they shot it on. I assume they shot it on 2001,.
Alex:So I guess, yeah, so probably filmed, but I believe it's in a 4-3 aspect. I think they shot it until about 2009.
Matt:A 4-3 aspect ratio, from what I remember.
Alex:I think the remastered is opened up.
Matt:yeah, so stupid things like that will make me go.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:It just makes my brain go into a state of less attentiveness to it. I don't know why.
Alex:And like but 4.3, like there's films shot on 4.3 where that was just the theater projection aspect ratio. So it's not like like they were framed properly. It's not like it's a degrading quality, absolutely Like there's a difference between like a TV crop. But I want to. I want to come back to this permission to check out really quick, though I just want to wrap up my point on the record flipping sorry, I took us on the repertory theater.
Matt:No, no, I want to come back to the repertory theater.
Alex:But yeah, I just the only point I had to make, and it's a pretty obvious point anyways. But it's just when you find something that begs for your attention and you give it the attention that it begs for, it's so much more rewarding than you know you could just you know dopamine right into your veins. And I think it's still more rewarding when you engage with something that is begging for your attention in a way that it's calling for, and then you immediately are going to be able to see, yeah, like this is a profound experience and I think I had.
Alex:I mean, I'm having that with the wire yep um, any great piece of art that I've encountered in my life. I've had that with and citizen kane. Obviously we had that with like why. I want to now just go back to the why. Why Like? It's interesting to me because I almost I wonder if it's a cause. I I think I might've done that too at one point, and then I think I've watched so much old film.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Alex:That I don't really watching old film was one of the like it's. It's almost up there with like doing like psychedelics or something. Yeah for me, and just transformative experience in the sense that it showed me that everything's the same, like we're experiencing the same everything.
Alex:There's just a different, like thin layer of context on it all that's right, because I'll go back and I'll watch a film from the 20s and I'm like yeah this is me, you know, on tuesday, yeah, and I'll go back and I'll watch films from the 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s, and you know, if it's well made and if it's crafted and in a way that is aware of that kind of through line that humans have, then it's always something, it always has something to give me. And I feel like at first maybe that wasn't as See, but I know that you also feel that way about older, older work, so it's like yeah, I think what the point that I, or the thing that I'm experiencing is.
Matt:I think the internet, social media, youtube, all of those have been tools that have made me, especially with as the intensity of my personal work right. So I've transitioned from someone who does work for other people and then seeks out film, television, theater, music, to give me an experience that is profound, to give me deeper meaning, to see things, to be present while I watch. Something as being an employee dropped and then working for myself increased and all of the intensity that I've given to my work whether it was um work that was a little bit more work that was a little bit more rote or a little bit more mechanical, versus creative and soul giving and all this stuff all this corny shit when I come away from that, I keep hitting the mic.
Matt:I'm an idiot. When I come away from that, I want to just be in a vibe. I want to tune out, I want to not be present. I want to be a little detached and disconnected. I want to just be in a vibe. I want to tune out. I want to not be present. I want to be a little detached and disconnected, I want.
Alex:It's like the 12 hour shift, right, you get home, you're just like you've been, you know, pouring concrete or something. See, you've been In that situation.
Matt:I am so starved of deeper meaning and art and profound drama and all that that my escape was to then soak it all up at night, like I'm going to watch Mad Men, or I'm going to watch this old movie, or I'm going to do this because I need. I was pouring concrete all day, making my own work or going out and doing photography or making a YouTube video or whatever I'm doing. That's, that's exhausting me creatively.
Matt:You don't want to go home and do the same thing I don't want to go home and then work to like be in that same headspace. I want to kind of check out a little bit and just vibe out to something simple.
Alex:I get it, and it's not necessarily a good thing.
Matt:I'm not saying that that's a good thing, but that's what I have.
Alex:No, I totally understand. Yeah, I think I think I'm I'm a victim to that too from time to time. I think that part of it is just that. I think part of it is completely training yourself to kind of constantly seek out something a little.
Matt:And that's where the repertory theater comes in. Not that that's the answer, but I look at Alamo and film streams and go what movies am I going to go out and see? Especially movies that I may have avoided.
Speaker 1:I think.
Matt:I personally avoided Barry Lyndon because I knew it was so long.
Alex:I like to think, though, like you know, at times the escape for a lot of these things was like the easy dopamine escape was like reading, you know, Moby Dick.
Matt:Right.
Alex:One more chapter on the high seas. We've almost just. You know, you start to strip things down layer by layer by layer and you lose. At some point, you, I think you start to lose something yeah and yeah, it's you know where. Where is that? Like there's always been escapism, but kind of the average level of quality has dropped to a point where I don't know that sounds.
Speaker 1:That sounds terrible I don't, I don't know if I mean that.
Alex:But just there is a maybe like there is access now to almost raw dopamine yeah, I guess.
Matt:And that's because of the democratization of of making stuff. You can have you know everything from only fans to YouTube to uh, you know, we all have the tools and I don't mean just video, but we all have the tools.
Matt:We can write a self, because self publish a novel, we can write, but we all have the tools. We can self-publish a novel. We can write poetry and put it on the website. We can have a vlog, we can have a blog. Whatever it is, we all can make stuff, and so therefore, the amount of stuff out there for people to find that they gravitate toward is vast. But then, obviously, because everybody can do it, the quality can be, I don't know, lower, but yeah but then it also can be sort of well engineered in that it's sensationalistic or, yeah, extreme concept.
Alex:Well, I'm thinking of like a top 10 list.
Alex:Like what's like if you have any kind of top 10 list of something that you're vaguely interested in. It can be the shittiest thing of all time, but you're engaged because you're like what's next? Yeah, what's number one, what's number two? Why is that? And yeah, we've just, we've boiled things down to, like, the core level of sensationalism, or just pure, just dopamine that it's kind of hard to. What do you do, though? Is that? Is that the best form of it? Or do you think, like, are we just being, you know, old and idealistic by sitting here saying like, no, you should engage with this, or, like it is, there is some greater level of you know humanity if you engage with these works or is it just like?
Alex:no, it's fine. Like it serves the purpose, like media's purpose is to give you a hit of dopamine.
Matt:So if we can do it efficiently and effectively, I think, to kind of bring things full circle right, we talked about sitting in the studio 10 hours a day, day in and day out. It's unhealthy, it's too much, it causes problems. You need to get out, you need to experience stuff. I think same thing with what we watch, what we consume. You experience stuff. I think same thing with, yeah, what we watch, what we consume. We have to ebb and flow through, yeah, the greatest works. Um, you know, go to the jocelyn art museum one day and then watch some buddy flip through records on youtube. It's okay to want to watch something kind of dumb, yeah, yeah, uh, read a romance novel or a pulp novel, then read Moby Dick.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:You know, fluctuate between these places, it's all out there. And if you like watching the Smurfs, watch the Smurfs. And if you like watching the Wire on Tuesday nights, then watch the better stuff.
Alex:Yeah, it's okay. I think there's this weird idea that, like, we have have to like oh, I have to get through this, I have to read this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Alex:And I think there's a lot of wisdom to be gained from engaging with difficult and complex works. Sure, but at the end of the day, you know there's no like you don't die, and it's like. Well, I read these 100 books, so I am therefore like in peace.
Matt:I'll be, dick. I'll checked off the list. It's like.
Alex:So now I, my afterlife will be secured.
Matt:People will think I'm a profound person. Yeah.
Alex:Like there's no, yeah, it's just like if you enjoy engaging with those things, engage with them, yeah, and really like I think there's, I think there's so much to be gained and taken from them. But if you don't enjoy, I want to clarify, like I think there's a lot of people like, oh, I just don't like that stuff, and they've never really given it an actual chance because maybe they are so clouded by just like quick dopamine or whatever.
Alex:So I would really push for anybody who hasn't actually given it a chance to give it a chance. But yeah, you might just find like, not for me.
Speaker 1:And it's like.
Alex:You know what you got? A finite. You have a finite amount of time.
Matt:Don't spend it doing stuff that you really don't care about I think, and that you know goes back to doing what you want versus what's expected of you yeah I do think we need to challenge ourselves sometimes to to try new medium, new medium media, media mediums of expression or eras of media that we like, you like film. Somebody might say I don't watch black and white movies. Yeah, yeah, Just try it I personally would.
Alex:I would recommend anybody watch older films because I think it really gives you great context. It's kind of one of the reasons that I think film and photography Wide little puppy.
Matt:That's why I keep talking about repertory. If you struggle with maybe watching that stuff at home, or you think you might go to the movies and see it Because you ain't going anywhere else unless you walk out, there's like two movies I've walked out on my whole life. But there's something special about and I tell you this all the time like how lucky are we that we have two theaters that show old movies. I saw Barry Lyndon this year and Citizen Kane. It's incredible and I love it and I don't think I would have had as deep and rich of an experience with both those films had.
Speaker 1:I watched them at home.
Matt:Yeah, I just don't yeah. Now you know newer movies, like if I watched Alien Romulus at home versus in the theater, I think I probably would have had a comparable experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:Would the sound have been as good, would the immersiveness have been as good, et cetera. I think my takeaway of the movie would have been roughly the same and I would not have had any difficulty being present with it. And it's a fault of mine that I may struggle with being present with a movie that's older.
Alex:I think that's, but I think also but it's also something I can.
Matt:the more you do it you realize you know there's so much value that I'm getting from these older films that I'm going to change that default thought or that default thinking.
Alex:Yeah, eventually it just becomes second nature, almost Like it is for you, but I do think that oh, actually you might be to the point where you're like modern movies. I can't be present with modern movies I you know, because I mean it is difficult to be, but I think it's just a filter that I've developed yeah like there's still modern movies that I see and I'm like that that was unbelievable. Like what, what? What have I seen in the last?
Matt:like poor things, unreal terrific, just like blew my mind.
Alex:Interest we really zone of interest like there's still stuff that I'll see absolutely, and it cracks the barrier and I think it's made me a better critic. Sure, I mean, I don't really care about being a critic, I don't really care about opinion, but I do think, like I care about them in the sense that they influence my own decision making, my own work and and you know, I still want to make films. You know, that's still what I want, like, I want to get to that point, I want to break into that Like, and so everything I see is informing that.
Alex:That's right and everything I see is pushing me to like, okay, this is, even if it's subconscious, this is good, this is bad, don't do this, do this. And you know that's just a matter of taste, but no, I think it. Maybe even you're subconsciously giving those older films the level of respect by being like I have to be in the theater to engage with this Cause. Maybe it is just modern cinema, especially like the blockbuster film, is highly effective at tapping into quick release dopamine, right, and I'm not saying that that means it's completely bad, but maybe it is more effective at tapping into that quick release dopamine.
Matt:Well they, they do that too by you know, you know, and I'm susceptible to it. I love a good comic book movie. I was psyched to see Alien Romulus. You see the marketing.
Alex:They drop the trailer all that stuff, Like you're not there, isn't. I've heard the new Gladiator 2 is gonna be like stellar I will probably go see it.
Matt:So you have all that for lack of a better word hype surrounding this stuff that puts you in a state of presence with it, because it's all been built up to get you in that theater and to get you in that seat, whereas Barry Lyndon it's like. To me it's almost like, well, they shot it all with natural light. They shot it. It's three hours. There's an intermission. There's all these things that tend to be the takeaways for the majority of people it's not that it's good or bad, but those are.
Matt:So it's a really long movie. It's a polarizing movie of uh, kubrick's maybe, or you know these things, so it's not like there's hype and everybody's amped to go see it. There's all this momentum and positive, uh energy toward it. There's like some negative and some some positive.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:It took me a lot of viewings to really access the shining on a deep level.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:And now it's probably one of my top five, top seven favorite films of all time. So, so again, the repertory theater having access to these things, and I did in Los Angeles. I was two miles away, if that, from the New Beverly Theater that, while I was living there, quentin Tarantino took over and he would show his 35 millimeter prints of old Burt Reynolds movies and all this stuff and you're like you're with an audience, they're all engaged.
Matt:It's just an amazing experience and I had that feeling again with citizen Kane, with you and Audrey and me and a relatively full, a full auditorium, a full theater, seeing a 35 millimeter print like scratched up 30, a little rough, a little rough.
Alex:No, for sure that was part of the beauty of it as well, so um god, it was just like it was, so it felt like it could have been made oh yeah, like I know that people say this, and obviously I don't mean this on a, on every level but it felt like it could have been made yesterday I felt that throughout the entire thing I felt I felt like this movie could have been made
Matt:yesterday I felt that throughout the entire thing I felt I felt like this movie could have been made yesterday.
Alex:It just looks like they used old shit to make it yeah like they just had a bunch of old tools I've really I've come around on like orson welles and just how he yeah, how he works um that's why I picked up that war of the worlds record.
Matt:Yeah, I've always known I'm so pumped.
Alex:I want to listen to that on your vinyl because I've listened to the broadcast on like YouTube or whatever. But I mean, I've been just watching more of his films and there's like a pace to them and a style to them that is a little bit jarring and it feels a little amateur, but I think but he's also trying Well and like it's one of those things where, like the first time I saw it I was like not for me, yeah, but then the more I've like forced myself to and it's just taking time, it's just taking a lot of time to continuously.
Matt:I just referenced the shining.
Alex:It's something for me.
Matt:Like you guys, all this is it for me we need to watch F is for fake together.
Alex:Yeah, so it's on my project list. Yep, it's one of those. Okay, so maybe I just invite you over that night. Yeah, maybe you and Aaron come over or whatever, I don't know. Yeah, but I would love to just.
Alex:F is for fake is about it's just, this psycho film about, like it's documentary and it's about art forgery. Yeah, but the film is a forgery, it's like. It's just. It's like changed the way I looked at documentary filmmaking when I first saw it. It was one of those things that got me to like, because the first orson welles film I saw was citizen kane.
Alex:Yeah, and you hear about him like I remember taking film class freshman year of college and it's like Orson Welles. Oh, yeah, it's fucking Orson Welles. Everybody in the class is like, yeah, orson Welles and Wes Anderson, and you're like okay, and I really feel like I just, you know, I don't know, I just was like okay. And then it came, you know, continuing to engage with his work over the, you know, over the, you know, many years after that it's opened it up in a way that you must have to let the hype die and then go back in and see what's on the other side, and I, you know I think that's with anything we just get completely blinded by this hype Vertigo we saw vertigo in the theater.
Alex:I've seen that several times. I I've a very high regard for that film, and seeing it in theaters just put it on a different level for me. I don't know why, but that we went to see that a few weeks ago and it was like Whoa, I think that's there are some things in here that I've never even picked up on, that are just like it has to be one of my favorites.
Matt:It has to be a big part of it has to be how immersive it is and how uh captive you are. Yeah.
Alex:And just I love the when the ideas aren't simple like it's, it's dealing with like everything has an idea. Every, every sequence, every scene, every there's an idea that's being contended with, and it's not a. It's not an idea that I'm maybe familiar with, but it's an idea that I'm familiar with on like a yeah, on a very primal level. Sure, um, yeah, I don't know, man, only the best I know, do that, only the best. What else? What else we got? I think that's about it.
Matt:I think we can call it good, good, good chat.
Alex:I wonderful solve it. Maybe we'll put the first part with the script. I don't know. Just see what we can do. Maybe we release it as Honestly, maybe we just put it up as a bonus and we'll release the podcast episode and then we'll say, hey, the audio was bad here, but we thought the conversation was good and here you go.
Speaker 1:If you're good, yeah.
Alex:And here you go, if you're interested?
Matt:Yeah, and I can take the audio and see if our friendly AI can do anything with it.
Alex:You might be better at getting the audio clean than I am.
Matt:Yeah, I got to figure out what tools are out there. I know Premiere Pro has something that does it can try the premiere pro one. Yeah, I've heard that I've heard amazing things about it. Yeah, that it can take, I know da vinci just released a pretty stellar update too.
Alex:I haven't played with it much, whatever one I know I'm like I know I'm, I know I'm getting past the point of like that world yeah when I'm like da vci releases a crazy update and I'm just like, oh, whatever, can I still press this button. Yeah, I feel like, especially like we used to be so plugged in. It was like do you hear about Da Vinci's?
Matt:update oh dude, 17.5.
Alex:It's like all right whatever.
Speaker 1:And it'd been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer.
