Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Studio Sessions
36. Creative Identity and The Evolution of Creative Processes
We discuss how metrics and algorithms affect creative work and personal authenticity. Our conversation covers moving past formulas that prioritize views and engagement, exploring instead what happens when we slow down and focus on making things that matter to us and our communities.
We talk about setting clear principles for our work, the importance of taking time to develop ideas, and how to build real connections locally. This episode is for anyone trying to balance making good work with the pressure of metrics and algorithms. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
And it had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer.
Speaker 2:There's something that's been on my mind for a long time. Oh boy, Last few, let's go. So when we did the episode provenance for not, I wrote verse. Here it's not really verse oh provenance versus. Yeah but I don't like it I don't like. They're different concepts. Quintessence yeah, but provenance and quintessence Provenance in our definition being where? The story behind the object, the story behind it manifests in physical form or in a physical nature yeah.
Speaker 2:So think scratches or brassing on the camera who owned it? Yeah, it's the signature on the inside. We were talking about your, the typewriter that you bought. That's right um versus quintessence, which is just like it's more of like an original design.
Speaker 4:So and again this in the context of what? Which of these provenance or quintessence makes you love the thing? Yeah, and for me, it's typically provenance or quintessence makes you love the thing. Yeah, and for me, it's typically provenance makes me love it.
Speaker 2:I thought about this a lot and then I started reading a lot about really distinguishing luxury goods, distinguishing provenance, and so this is like four months of like, like contending with this idea I have, I have a huge I did not know this. This is and I love, and I love this. Contending with this idea, I have a huge. I did not know this. This is yeah, I haven't talked to you about it and I love this. I haven't talked to you about it.
Speaker 4:That conversation about that spawned four months of rumination. I love that.
Speaker 2:Well, so I was thinking about quintessent and quintessent design, and then I started reading about luxury, true luxury. Again, we had an episode kind of about that, so that was inspiring the thinking.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, these ideas and we mean luxury, like in the good way, like not yes, I'm not talking about like on a t-shirt or like a, like um, like a.
Speaker 2:You know you have a luxury handbag because it's got a logo stamped all over it right, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, like, something that's luxury, and this is this is where I'm getting getting to. Yep. Um, the one of this essay that I found defined luxury as a, as an ability for something to develop provenance. Oh yeah, that's right. So quintessence is the source of provenance, is something to develop provenance? Oh yeah, that's right. So quintessence?
Speaker 1:is the source of provenance. The source of provenance, that's right.
Speaker 2:So you have something that is quintessent or that is beautifully designed, and it's designed in such a way that it'll last for a hundred years. So the real value, the luxury, like the thing that sets it apart, uh, as an item, a commodity or disposable item, and as something that is luxury, is the ability to sustain provenance over time. Yeah, so that's awesome yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, what's interesting about that too is I gravitate towards well-made things, yeah, luxury that, not that have provenance, versus getting that thing you know brand new. So like if the Hermes typewriter is beat to shit, sitting on an old CVS, sitting on a table in an old CVS because somebody has got a swap meter, something there and they tell me a World War II photojournalist used it after the war sold because obviously it's a well-made, swiss-made typewriter. It's sought after. I'm aware of that, I'm aware of it being one of the higher quality things, and so that makes me want to own it.
Speaker 4:The provenance is the is the clincher yeah but if I went to a typewriter shop and just saw a mint condition brand new hermes baby and other than it being in that typewriter shop, didn't know who owned it, where it came from, none of that stuff, I'm gonna choose the beat to shit hermes yeah and clean it up, but mostly keep it rough see that's interesting, so yeah because I like the story.
Speaker 2:So the luxury is completely defined to you by the having been.
Speaker 4:You're like a secondhand luxury well, it's, it's twofold, because I think there's a foundational luxury right yeah this is swiss made.
Speaker 2:This is one of the premier just really quick, like it says another thing that that, um, and this was actually this. This wasn't an essay.
Speaker 2:Uh, this was a video essay yeah and it was, um, I think it was design theory, did the, and then I I went on and I started digging through his sources and kind of like diving deeper into this. Yeah, because it was actually something that I don't know, just a very well-timed set of ideas, and so I explored it a little deeper than I might have usually. But it says that luxury focuses on the value, like marketing, the value of time, so the time spent to make it the time it it'll last. It usually comes down to time.
Speaker 4:And it's timelessness.
Speaker 2:Timeless. Like it, but it's. It's some like that is. The distinguishing factor of luxury is time.
Speaker 4:What, how much time was spent to make it, to design it?
Speaker 2:Because that typically implies high quality. Yeah, yep, so very interesting.
Speaker 4:Now that.
Speaker 2:I, just I, I wanted to kind of hear what, yeah, your thoughts on that. Well, and that being said so, if I'm, it's a precursor.
Speaker 4:If I'm at a watch shop and someone has, uh, an old Rolex and they know nothing about where it came from, obviously from whom it came from, they know, you know where it was made and maybe where it was sold or something bought or sold and then there's a kind of a nice Timex watch, but there's some big story behind it. Timex is not obviously better made than the Rolex, but let's say, because the person who owned it was a prominent figure, they're roughly the same price, let's say $1,000. I am drawn to the Timex. You find a Rolex for $1,000, buddy. I am drawn to the Timex because of that story and maybe there's an element of ego there because I can now tell that story to everybody else, whereas the Rolex, that doesn't have a story.
Speaker 4:Okay, cool people like the rolex, but I'm like, yeah, I don't know anything about it. Yeah, but this, you know, this timex watch, uh, uh, you know a guy that was an ace pilot in world war ii had this and bought it in 1972 and wore it at this place, that he worked and did all this stuff and blah, blah. You know what I mean. Like, yeah, all that fires me up and the rolex that it's just, that has provenance, but it's just, nobody knows it. It's just, it doesn't exist. Nobody nobody knows where it came from can trace it. Whatever. There's no, there's just nothing existing.
Speaker 2:It's kind of boring to me yeah, that's super interesting because, yeah, there's um, I don't know, there's just an element like something's attractive. I feel like they're, and to me there's something attractive about it being lost to time yeah it's tragic, but it's also like beautiful that it's just lost time, yeah, whereas, yeah, having something like I mean, clearly, I like the idea of tracing like the origin of things, but yeah, there's a there's a great clip from uh, antiques roadshow, speaking of rolex.
Speaker 4:It went viral and everybody's a lot of people have seen it. But there's this guy. He's got like silver, long silver hair, a big red bandana around his head, um, and he's at, you know, antiques Roadshow and he's showing them his Rolex watch and it's like a I don't know a Rolex Submariner he had. He's never wore it. It still has this like the little decal on the back of the watch all this stuff.
Speaker 4:You know the person's asking him how much did he pay for it? He bought it brand new on a military base back during vietnam war.
Speaker 1:It was like 350 bucks, so that was a you know like that was like a month's pay or whatever.
Speaker 4:Back then, yeah, big bucks. And so then he hits them with how much it's worth and he's like. He's like if this didn't have all of the documentation and had it had been worn and all that, this watch would be worth 300 to 400 thousand dollars. Yeah, but because it's never been worn and you still, this watch would be worth 300 to 400 000, but because it's never been worn and you still have the thing on the back of it and you have all this documentation, it's worth like 700 000 the guy like almost fell over yeah and so, obviously, the documentation.
Speaker 4:The fact that it hadn't been worn enhances the value, but for me, the thing that was exciting was the guy that owned it, see.
Speaker 2:But I think this, like this, is the proper antidote to um a disposable.
Speaker 2:You know, disposable like, consumerist like yeah you, you complain about planned obsolescence or like disposable um products, or you know consumerism and just having played out to the extent that it's played out to, I think this is the proper antidote to that is like the. The fact that and I'm not trying to just step away, because, yeah, I mean obviously, but you know, have have something, buy with the intention that something's going to last you through your life and then start applying memories to it, yeah, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Build the providence yourself. Build it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, start from scratch, like everything, look, like, take I don't know this is a silly thing that some people just don't care and that's fine, like it's fine. But you know, take, take stock of what you use on a daily basis and like, pick out a couple of things where you're like, yeah, I use that, but like I could totally get something in that field that's gonna last for you know, at least outlive me, yeah, which you know it's getting rare and rare to be able to find that, but you can still find it yeah and pick a couple of those things and be like I'm going to start building a story around this object and then I'm going to you know, and I'm going to document it, whether that's a journal or whatever, and then I'm going to pass that on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I feel like that's, that's cool. We've talked about it on episodes before, but yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great answer Like, because then you are, you're like, you're meeting people where they are. We talked about that earlier. You're meeting people where they are, like okay, you have a story that you want to tell. It's the same impulse that drives somebody to post a photo to Instagram or to comment on Facebook or to make YouTube videos. It's that same impulse, but, you know, apply it to an object and build a provenance to that object.
Speaker 4:Can I give you an example of to me what you talked about?
Speaker 4:like the time, brother, this is 50 your podcast so I just it just made me think about it like, uh, so I I over the weekend it was pretty warm here, it was like 55 60 degrees both days and I am behind on my typewriter cleaning the typewriters.
Speaker 4:I've gotten and I like to take the case off, degrease them, spray them, literally spray them with a hose, clean them off, put them back together. And I was posting about it on my Instagram stories and I made a post about one typewriter having two pieces to the case and seven screws and the other typewriter having literally like 20something screws and like seven pieces to the case and it's a huge pain in the ass to take them apart because you have all these little parts, the little springs on the little door and all this stuff that you've got to take reference photos, you've got to make sure you're keeping track of taking it apart and all that. But you can also tell that with all those little pieces, that the fitment and the precision of the typewriter is it's not that great. So I had an ultra-portable and a medium-portable, which is not a terribly fair comparison because the American ultra-portables have fewer screws and pieces and all that Cause it's an ultra portable but they're usually better designed to though.
Speaker 4:I took apart the Swiss Hermes baby from the world war two photojournalist, because I hadn't cleaned it yet Seven screws, two body panels and I best typewriter of all time, and I took apart a Royal Safari which is a medium portable. So it's it's. It's gonna have more parts, but it was seriously like 20 something screws and one, two, three, four, seven panels. Yeah that you had to take apart these little, these little spring screws that make the yeah thing pop up, whereas the swiss has these gull wings that are attached.
Speaker 2:they click in like what a dream to take apart and clean this typewriter and if you mess up one of them, it's like an absolute pride, like you essentially have to get a new one. Like I showed you where I fucked up the case when I traveled with the Hermes, you just take a file to it and is it the most elegant looking. Yeah, no. Does it work completely well to solve the problem?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so those are some of the key differences. For a mass-produced, it just felt like shortcuts. We could have made this a single piece, but we don't really. It's just not worth it.
Speaker 2:It's easier to put a bunch.
Speaker 4:And then the olivetti lettera 22 is you take a bottom panel off, undo a few screws and literally the whole case is one piece. Yeah, and it's a little tricky to get it off around the carriage but I'm like it's, it's just amazing that there's it's.
Speaker 4:It's more sort of luxury in the design than the luxury of the quality of the typewriter on the olivettis, because the olivettis are often the littlest part screws up and kind of brings the typewriter to its knees yeah where the american typewriters are built like tanks but there's all these inconsistencies in using them yeah but then the swiss and the german ones are the best of both yeah, built like tanks and they're built like tanks perfectly like designed never an issue. The olympias I put the paper through, I type across. It's all. Even the olivettis, you know, they start to get a little crooked. The american typewriters do. The ink doesn't transfer quite as clean. The olympias where is it? Where's the? I want to move on from this, but where's?
Speaker 2:like where's the line between? Because I I kind of agree with the idea of like, luxury is the ability for something to last yeah so it's like you know you have model T Fords that are still working today. Yeah, sure, you know that literally people still can drive Like you have. You know, name any mechanical example Like the what the M4, my M4 is 1972. Yeah. So like you have plenty of, like that's 50 or 50, almost 55 years old. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you have plenty of examples like that's 50 or 50, almost 55 years old, yeah, and you've plenty of examples like that, like, but it's a model t luxury and you could almost make an argument like yeah, it is because it's still around well it certainly got the luxury treatment because someone took care of it that well that it's still running 100 plus years later, 150 years later. How many cars though like aren't yeah, 210, 15 years, yeah, yeah yeah absolutely 100 years.
Speaker 4:Well our mazda 220, something thousand miles and the only issue it has is rust which we can't really control, other than not living in a cold midern climate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah, it's, it's interesting what defines luxury and what doesn't. I love people's input on this too, Like what, what? What defines luxury? Like almost focus group it. Like what defines luxury to you.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:I know we've discussed this before Like I mean, obviously this is just something that's top of mind. Yeah, in a lot of ways, and yeah, I think the the best definition I've heard, though so far, is probably it's the experience of time. Yeah, defining luxury yeah, because I I kind of just intuitively feels correct right but time.
Speaker 4:and I don't know just someone special thinking through every detail, and obviously that takes time, but it's also just someone who's magical.
Speaker 2:Putting the work into the, putting it all together, yeah. The experience of it, the practicality of it, the simplicity of it which, if you really put time towards any project like it's hard to, maybe it's not hard to do but like like time on kind of it exposes flaws. Yeah. You pick up all the rocks. Yeah, you find out what's underneath. Yeah, you know, you look under all the. Pat you know you look under all the Patience.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, time, yeah. Well, that was Going back to what you said about the provenance and all that. That was like one of those when you said that sentence where it was like you know, you just like have a new little deeper understanding of things. When someone says that, you know, says something like that, we're like, oh, I never thought of it that way, but that's it. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Those moments yeah, those are great. Hopefully I have one, I'm glad. Four months of ruminating conversation helped helped you find it.
Speaker 4:That's awesome, and then I just get it in four seconds and I'm good, great.
Speaker 2:No, I mean yeah, I just I kept going back to that one and we never, we never touched on it again. So I feel like you know we're wrapping up the year, let's go ahead and might as well. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:And um pretty good, you know, I don't know what will come from that but I I definitely it's influencing decision-making and things like that right now.
Speaker 4:What was nice about that episode, too, was just talking about provenance in a way where I don't want to say you haven't thought about it, but it just wasn't something that was like on your plate. Yeah, um, when thinking about acquiring things, yeah, yeah, consciously. Well, consciously, I'm not saying you don't know what provenance is and that you well and like we talked about, like the bowling trophy, like I think.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you can find this episode, you're a true fan. Or if you remember, At one point we talked about the bowling trophies and like that's provenance in a way. Yeah, you know and just how sad it is to have like bowling trophies and you know, in a place. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was like episode. Life was so different then. That was literally like 30 episodes ago 33 episodes ago on deep cut, but, um, yeah, I mean. So. We've touched on it before, but I've never really thought of it in relation to quintessence, in relation to design, in relation to luxury.
Speaker 3:So yeah it was cool to uh yeah, get, it all can tie that one up a little bit in a way yeah, buddy, all right, so what are we doing here?
Speaker 2:all right, I don't know we just do we think Do we just want to 2025? Do we want to do 2025? Yeah, we never referenced the thing. I don't know if I'll cut that part out or not, but Reference the thing I'm drawing a blank that we spent the whole evening on oh yeah. Oh, yes, yeah, we do come back to that, though in a different time well, let's just uh I'll.
Speaker 4:I'll try to summarize just real quick not that it's easily summarized. Alex talked about, uh, a minor crisis, which I just love that and just about, uh, artificial intelligence and he was grappling with something that prompted him to have pun intended, prompted a conversation with, specifically like neural networks.
Speaker 4:AI simulated consciousness and all that kind of stuff, and is it? Yeah, yeah, and so we had like an hour long conversation where he went through the different back and forth he had with the AI, the language learning model, and I, you know, gave thoughts, feelings, opinions, shades of other things with it, and it was a very interesting discussion.
Speaker 4:That would have been cool to record but I'm kind of like you know it's okay for us to have one, just for us, so that's what we were referring to. We spent about an hour going through that stuff and it was, yeah, fascinating. I think eventually we will do an episode, especially when you get to the part with the paradox and how the LLM was reacting to that idea. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we will eventually do an episode on this.
Speaker 4:Um, and I think, minor crisis, minor crisis as a project, though for you even if you just make it and keep it to yourself, there's something maybe it's just like a sub series of this podcast. Like really cool about that. Yeah, that I'm immediately, if I saw that out there, and be like oh, I want to.
Speaker 2:I want to tune into this. I um there and be like, oh, I want to, I want to tune into this. I um see now there's, there's market forces.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, no, no sharing though to me it's just sharing yeah, I I think there's something there like there's I had. I got a lot of value out of what you were, yeah, challenging the llm to there's.
Speaker 2:There's something about just like yeah, I don, I don't know, We'll, we'll discuss, we'll have an episode discussing this. Like that sounds vain. You know, I don't. I don't want it to be like oh, like, just wait for our like. I'm not, I'm not saying it like that.
Speaker 4:I'm just saying it's not this is inevitable. Eventually, we're going to do an episode on yeah On this, and right now is not the time. Now is not the time. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things.
Speaker 4:Like you know, it took me four months to figure out provenance in relation to, but we also, we also, you know, we, obviously we grapple with things and have conversations about things that aren't part of the show. When they happen, yeah, and rumination and deliberation, and you know it keeps bubbling up or whatever.
Speaker 2:And it leads to being something that we want to talk about on the show and have a formal conversation about Absolutely and I want to, like I'm going to head it off at the pass, Like I am not, like I'm very pro like neural networks, AI whatever you want to call it, deep learning whatever, I'm very pro that in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there are just some you know some things that create an internal minor crisis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's just like some crazy shit. There's. There's some like, I think, some philosophical implications and there's some like personal frameworks, maybe you call it, or just kind of how there's some things that are being challenged by or it creates a voids where you are hoping to develop a framework in the void right. There's, there's, yeah, potential for new frameworks that you know, maybe didn't, couldn't, couldn't have existed yeah, four years ago just which is what I do.
Speaker 4:I meet somebody new, I see a void, I want to map yeah map things to just navigate things a little. Yeah, better, absolutely, and I don't want to solve it. But I want to kind of know the lay of the land a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I think, yeah, it's just kind of like does my you know conception of the world fit, or do I have to rethink?
Speaker 4:that it's all gonna crash and burn maybe I'm pretty sure and it's gonna happen at panera over coffee with uh claude cheers unlimited coffee, though, so that's a plus.
Speaker 2:Anyways, all right, let's talk 2025. We haven't discussed this at all. Where do we want to go? Minor crisis.
Speaker 4:Where do we want to my in-depth conversation Over hazelnut coffee Over?
Speaker 2:cold hazelnut coffee Anyways.
Speaker 4:Hazelnut coffee and minor crises. My conversations with AI about the nature of existence, the nature of the nature.
Speaker 2:That's a screenplay. There you go. It's a. Anybody wants to write that?
Speaker 4:It's a piece of something I'm. I know I'm laughing about it, but there's no, no, no, there's a part of me. That's like I don't know, man, there's something there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like I just what you did was and you just like, nonchalantly, just be like, oh, I just had this conversation with LLM all day today, and not all day, but part of today and then you just dump this super deep, heavy shit on me and I'm just like this is something.
Speaker 2:There's something there, I think deep, heavy shit is probably the maybe take the deep part out, it's just heavy shit, alex.
Speaker 4:I'm here for the the, the goals ish conversation about 2025, buddy anyways, goals 2025.
Speaker 2:How do we want to do this? We've never done this before in the podcast, did we? Do a goals episode last year. I might be lying, I don't think so.
Speaker 4:Uh, done this before on the podcast. Did we do a goals episode last year? I might be lying, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Uh, it feels, it really feels, it really feels episodes you put me into that mindset and now we're like stepping back to this mindset.
Speaker 4:It kind of feels it's a very big vibe shift well, it's tough too, because 2024 was sort of like again for me, and I'm not gonna spend a bunch of time on this, but it was for me like just minor, Minor crisis. Yeah, minor crisis blowing things up, experimentation and making it up as I went versus the previous years, which again kind of that hustle entrepreneur, get your ducks in a row, open up your notion, shit and just power through stuff to determine if something is an obstacle or a part of the part of what's going to get you to your objective, so you can hammer out those goals for 2024.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, and so for me, 2020, 25, 2025, how many is about. I'm sorry, I'm still on the the the existential dread that was uh see, you have all the context everybody watching is just like jesus christ.
Speaker 2:What the? Did you guys talk about?
Speaker 4:yeah uh, well, we mean, we solved everything, obviously it's done, don't worry about it, guys. I'm sitting here with clarity, but also also I'm in the wake of everything that we went through. So 2025 for me is about how do I try to combine some of the best of both of those worlds into a better way to move forward. So I could talk about. Obviously I can talk about anything endlessly forever.
Speaker 2:What do you feel like is the most? Did we cover it in the last episode? Is it that that you feel like is the biggest shift, or at least the most?
Speaker 4:I think it kind of ties into what you talked about with luxury and it's what we talked about in the last episode, where it was like Banging out content. If I get six videos done in a month, like I'm doing well, but it's like I'm not actually really deploying a sophisticated um understanding of the quality of that content. It's the quality is in the quantity and while I still endeavored to be thoughtful about my choices or make it look good or make it sound good, you know some technical things as far as quality goes, I'm not as excited about the deeper levels of more substantive quality. You know the videos coming from a place of you know, just in service to it versus in service to you know ego vanity.
Speaker 2:I feel like you're synthesizing something really like just on the very, you know, very focused level of your channel. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like as a as a marker of progress. You're, you're in the middle of like synthesizing something really unique to you, yeah, and I, I think I like I can't say oh, that's going to reach its final, or it's like that's going to continue to progress, that's going to reach its final form in May 2025. But I think like the, you have a guide. Even if it is, it might not be completely obvious or completely like. Like you, you might've not written it down.
Speaker 4:Like oh, this is where.
Speaker 2:I need to go. This is this video is going to be on. This, this videos. You're going in the right direction. It's apparent from the outside, in my opinion again, that's just one opinion.
Speaker 4:But yeah, and it and it certainly feels better, and it certainly feels like it's coming from a place of um uh, we talked about this before, but not that it is pure, but a place of of, of more service, of, of something that's more pure versus um, some kind of market force at play, or um ego uh that sort of thing?
Speaker 2:Is there an opportunity or like any ambition, to broadcast that outside of? I mean, obviously you're broadcasting it right now yeah this podcast, but is there like an ambition to be like, I don't know, like to shift the underlying, you know, social forces of your immediate community towards more of like that kind of content?
Speaker 4:or I think. I think there's certainly a desire to have conversations, whether it's in the content I make or just in like actual conversations with people in person, but there's certainly, you know, in my content creator community uh, with you know, people that make you know youtube videos and my friends, and all that to just have a sense of when things are being said that come from a place of metrics and success, and all of that stuff to just go, well, what would you do if you made the video that you'd want to watch that you aren't finding out there? If you made the video that you'd want to watch yeah, that's not at you, that you aren't finding out there and you want to make it, what would it look like? And you didn't have any of these forces at play, what would that be? And that's what I want to do about retention and click-through rate and average view duration and all that stuff and just go. You know, if I saw this video and I was a person interested in this stuff I would really enjoy watching this and keep it as simple as that.
Speaker 4:And at the same time, though, there are market forces at play, because this year, revenue was way down, because I'm experimenting and screwing around with stuff and kind of pushing back against commerce and all that um a way that's different and comes from that perspective of well, if I had to make a brand integration and I was someone that was going to watch a brand integration on someone else's channel, how would what would it look like for me to be like I'm okay with that, like that was enjoyable, or whatever? The example we've given in the past is I do fast forward through for the most part, but I also when I don't enjoy all the Rick Rubin commercials. I don't care about some nicotine gum, but it's pleasant to listen to it.
Speaker 2:I'll listen to them all, at least once, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, especially as a new one. I'm like, oh, it's a new brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't heard this one. I haven't heard this one. Let's see what we got.
Speaker 4:And then there's also comfort in knowing that even someone that I hold on high and this is the- Does falls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe not falls, but accepts it as a part of the equation. That's right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and so unburdening myself from thinking that you know you're a bad artist if you incorporate commerce, just incorporate it in an artistic way, like be mindful and take your time with it and be thoughtful about it, don't just.
Speaker 2:You bastard? No, I'm about it, don't just you bastard. No, I'm just kidding, don't just rush through it.
Speaker 4:So I need to, I need to marry those two a little bit more, cause I have to earn revenue or otherwise I don't get to make my work anymore. So there's there's a, there's a trade off there, um. So yeah, that that that's part of what I'm already starting. I'm already doing it, incorporating this approach in what I'm making currently. But I, of course, want to go deeper, and even this week I talked about in a member video, when I was outlining the script that I'm going to do for sort of the story of overhauling the back studio and all that at my, at my place, to just kind of go. I I felt myself going well, if you want to get this done, you know, if you want to get this video like out by Friday, you better get your and I'm like you, better move yeah.
Speaker 4:And that's just like no. Yeah. Um, you've got breathing room right now, especially because you know I had some work from concert stuff and some filming stuff. So there's a little bit of money in the account where I'm not as pressured to, you know, to to pay my bills to rip to rip one out such a great way to say it. Uh, so I just said to myself well, it's interesting, because I I kind of let myself off the hook, yeah and um then you had that conversation.
Speaker 2:You're like but am I?
Speaker 4:indulging, but I kind of surrender to the fact. Like you know, a more realistic time frame for getting something like this done even though you're not going to hold yourself to it is, you know, by the end of next week. But let's just throw the time frames out the window like, let's just see what happens.
Speaker 4:But then I got another idea, because I, I, you know, I'm, you guys see all these vintage apple stuff. I bought a vintage apple shirt that has final cut pro on it and I got it today and I'm like I'm gonna film myself opening this and talking about it. Or I got it yesterday.
Speaker 2:It's funny. I actually watched this video this morning. Yeah, yeah, I was like it felt way more like on unscripted yeah Than your usual like just off the cuff completely. Yeah, Well, because I was like it's just funny, like the fact that it was so noticeable. Yeah. Cause like the the you know, the other one was very scripted not in the way of, but I'm not saying scripted in terms of negative absolutely I'm it's just polished, yeah yeah to unpolished, yeah, maybe that's that's more apt
Speaker 2:but, yeah, um, it just felt less polished it was funny that it was so noticeable, though, because of how polished your videos I know yeah which is nice, like it put a contrast, like oh wow, no, this guy puts a lot of effort towards everything, and then you put something up that's kind of more off the cuff and it really, you know, darkness, light highlights yeah and there is a desire to experiment with the simplicity of just pressing record on a camcorder.
Speaker 4:Sitting there and talking for seven minutes and there's only one edit in that. In that video, two edits. Technically I cut off the a little bit of the beginning and then cut out to experience that, yeah, every other week though, right?
Speaker 4:and just kind of going, I don't know. I mean, I kind of want to put a little bit of B-roll here just to drive the point home, but then just let it run. And I think you know now, again, there's an element of that like, ooh, I'll get a dopamine hit if I publish this today and I'll sort of give myself breathing room. So those old forces are still there, Always at play, yeah, and I have to be careful because I don't want to necessarily say, okay, you made this, Now let's let this sit for a day or two and then watch it again and really ask yourself, you know, is it good?
Speaker 4:So I want to start experimenting with feel it, make it, send it with. You know, feel it, make it, send it. I don't want that to be the guiding force of everything I do in 2025. I just want to take a moment with stuff because obviously, like I just got this shirt, Like I need to share it right away, because if I share this three months from now, then it's out of the context of how this unfolded in my real life. I'm working on a video about driving my Mazda home over the summer and part of my brain goes.
Speaker 2:I don't care about this anymore.
Speaker 4:No, not even that Part of my brain is like well, when I release this, it's going to be winter, but it's going to have taken place in the summer, Like caring about how jarring it is chronologically. It's interesting and it's like just tell a good story I have so much respect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have so much respect for people who can tell like oh yeah, it took me a year and a half to make this yeah like I literally recorded this nine months ago yeah, because that's very difficult to do right here, yeah, yeah, because like you are living in one timeline right and that is.
Speaker 4:It's like this alternate timeline that doesn't quite coexist well, and it's weird because this sometimes you default to thinking like my videos are telling the story of what I'm going through. So if I break that chronology of what my I'm having, what I'm experiencing in my real life, that's like breaking down though from like.
Speaker 2:this is a journal entry to this is a critique on human experience. Yeah, so important, I think.
Speaker 4:So it'll be fun to experiment with that a little bit too, to have videos that come out that were filmed six months ago and they come out plop. You know, here it is.
Speaker 4:Now I might, you know, orient the viewer and be like you know, so last, you know, last summer, I went blah, blah, blah and like you know no-transcript fuel, the creative stuff you know, whether it's going to estate sales or thrifting for vintage stuff and getting this old stuff or stereo equipment or records and trading in for more records, all of that.
Speaker 4:These are the things that I do to create sort of a, a foundation, a vibe in my life to fuel inspiration and to, I don't know, just surround me in this like warm blanket of other people's work and music and the design of an old sony cd player and all that stuff is um to really understand when I'm chasing dopamine and doing those things and when I'm chasing community and connection and life and outside the magic rectangle, going oh yeah, like becky and mark and these people that I've met out doing these things in the third, the idea of third places and wanting to preserve that and have those connections. That was just that archetype this afternoon. And alex, who I met um uh, who, uh, who I met at, uh, an event, uh, months and months ago, who's become a friend, um, I, I, I need to be out in the world having those experiences and those types of things estate sales, drifting, coffee shop, record store, all that stuff um have given me so much value because of the relationships that have come out of those. Uh, you know, I walked into homers today and mike, you know one of the guys the full timer hey, matt, what's going on, you know you know, it's just
Speaker 2:feels good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's just great to just know people and and and have those relationships, even if it's within the walls of that place. Only yeah, so definitely want to make sure that I'm not succumbing to the forces that make me sit in front of the magic rectangle all day, which is what happened before 2024. Just literally would sit there all day, 10 plus hours, finding something to do on there, cranking out content Just focused on quality, but mostly live stream. Every Friday, an article in Medium Gotta have this, gotta have that. And it was like if you're not working from 7 am, literally the laptop will be open in 2023 at 7 am. Going through my expenses doing this, doing that, da da da.
Speaker 2:Well, see, and I feel like having that as a separate experience is that's where the problem is. Like you have to feel. You have to feel integrated. Yeah. Like this, this version of your life that you love and that gives you energy, has to integrate with that version of your life. And when it does like, yeah, live stream every Friday, not a problem. Right, like podcasts out every two weeks, not a problem.
Speaker 2:when it integrates, cause it's like checking more than one box. But when it's just like this is just this arbitrary business thing, right, that I do, yeah, and it doesn't integrate, it just becomes friction, yeah, and then it just drain. Every time it's just taking a little bit out of your battery meter and then it just drained.
Speaker 4:Every time it's just taking a little bit out of your battery meter Right, and eventually you're. And the parting thought before we switch to you is well, the six videos you used to make in a month. What if one video you made in a month accomplished way more than those six videos ever did? Yeah, and in making that one video, twice a week you were out in the world, or you were not working on a video or you were just experiencing life, and it made the video better because those experiences fueled a perspective, an idea for an edit, a different way to film it, you know whatever. And that one video was exponentially better than the six videos that you cranked out Like it was a assembly line factory. Yeah, you were making a, you know.
Speaker 2:I think, I think assembly line content is going. It's quickly gonna start to become less valuable.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um yeah, yeah, I think so too, and I think that's why a lot of people kind of fade on a channel because they consume 80 videos from that content creator and the metrics and the the hustle of it. They just are sort of recycling the same paint by numbers.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of people that I used to listen to or watch. You know, 10 at. I mean at this point, yeah, 10, 15 years ago, right, you know, uh, 10 years ago, seven years ago, five years ago, three years ago, who I don't listen to and watch anymore? And usually it's not because they, you know, usually it's because they stopped growing.
Speaker 2:It's not because they, like, lost some quality, like they're still doing the same thing, though it's like they're doing the same, still doing the same thing, though Right, it's like they're doing the same exact thing that they were five years ago, yeah, and so I think rather than being on the assembly line like, and not just growth in terms of I mean not at all, actually in terms of like. I don't give a shit if your channel has no.
Speaker 2:I just there's still people I watched that I watched in like 2008 on YouTube and they still make videos and I'll still watch them. They've grown and it's interesting and I'm like man, you remember when you were like it's, I mean that is crazy. Now, cause, like that is, I mean, yeah, that's almost 20 years ago, and you can literally be like, yeah, I were like, you know, 20 years old or like I remember when you were like 18 or like what. Like you, you go all the way back to like these experiences, yeah, and you followed them. That's something that's totally unique. That's a virtual relationship. I've never met this person. And then there's people that I watched four years ago that I can't watch their videos anymore because I'm just like I don't care, like I was really into this for like a couple of minutes and then so I mean you're growing and you're not afraid to show it on the channel.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:And I think that's going to serve you well over time or on this channel.
Speaker 4:It's about where it all comes out.
Speaker 2:It's about it. I mean honestly we should go back and watch one of our videos from a couple of years ago. I don't think we'd like, like there's no cringe or anything, but no, just I think it'd be interesting to look at like yeah oh, how are we processing the world at that point, and how are we processing it now?
Speaker 4:and how are we talking about how it's gonna impact the work that we do?
Speaker 2:yeah there's a lot that probably hasn't changed though, but absolutely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean sometimes these what might seem on the outside looking in as sort of like a micro adjustment on the again, on the outside, you know, is a uh, what, what did you call it? Uh, minor crisis.
Speaker 2:A micro adjustment on the outside is a micro crisis, on minor crisis yeah minor crisis on the inside, you know um, uh, so so so we've had a lot of minor crisis over the last 24 months.
Speaker 4:Well, and that's and I think that that's the. This is a little corny, but the beauty of friendship and connections with other people is they might challenge your way of thinking, they might introduce you to a new medium, and that community helps you to see things differently or to see what you are doing more clearly, to go well. This is what I like about that and this is, you know, what I don't like so much. Yeah. And I want to move it in this direction.
Speaker 2:Which brings me perfectly to my 2025.
Speaker 4:Goals-ish for 2025.
Speaker 2:No, I think, yeah, think I just want more. And that's hard because I'm naturally not really an extroverted person. Yeah, I mean, you know this probably pretty well, but I get exhausted really quickly, like in the traditional sense. Like in the sense of like how you would describe or define an introvert and extrovert, like I truly get exhausted. Like you know, we'll spend a bunch of time with family or something. Sense, like in the sense of like you, how you would describe or define an introvert and extrovert. Like, yeah, I truly get exhausted. Like you know, we'll spend a bunch of time with family or something, and like I love it. But like, I'm actually physically exhausted. Like man, I just need time, yeah, to like process this or to go and just be by myself.
Speaker 2:Um, but my life is so much better when I'm around people and when I'm, you know, in dialogue with people, I'm meeting new people, I'm in the world, and so I want, I want to bring more of that into my life. I don't know what that looks like necessarily, but I think that's kind of what I want out of 2025. Um, there's more of that more ability. Like you know, I want more. I get excited about ideas and a lot of like thank goodness, like the internet's amazing, there's so many ideas there at your fingertips or in your ear.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I love listening to like podcasts or books or reading books, or like I can do that stuff all day long. And like watching old documentaries, old movies, like all day long. I love ideas and I mean I literally drink from a fire hose, like constantly, it's true and um. But I want to, I want to kind of ground that even more in the real world and like with my community, like I want to experience that on a local level, cause I like I know there, like there's you know, what we sit here and talk about isn't special. There's people that probably are would be down to get into like the same kind of same weeds or get into the same conversations. So I want to identify that more.
Speaker 4:Yeah and um and that's one of my favorite, sources of ideas is, or perspectives is, from the people in the community, especially just being in close orbit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like, just be like, and that's that I mean. That's what I want to do. I want to like establish a foundation or like a network, like a localized network of people. Um, that's something I really want to do. That's probably near the top of my list, um, just in importance and in ambition. Um, I mean, yeah, there's, there's a lot, there's plenty right, and there's there's some things I don't want to talk about.
Speaker 2:There's some things I do want to talk about, but um just like better positioning myself, for, I mean, my, my goal is always like, what are you like? I think the best work takes time. You know we've talked about luxury and time and dah, dah, dah dah, but I do. I like that's been a long held belief of mine it's like the best stuff the best, whether it's you know, something you're making or something you're you're learning about it takes time, and so just positioning myself with one what, what are those? Those um things that I want to go after, that I want to accomplish, and then positioning myself in the proper time, like where the time scale is in front of me, if that makes sense, like, um, where I've set myself up to um, you know, have that like.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't want to be worried about X, y and Z, I just want to be able to put my head down and focus on, like the things that I I do want to put my head down and focus on. So I think just putting myself in a position where those things are, um, maybe frictionless isn't the best word, but close, you know, removing friction from them. Um, I know that sounds really vague and like I'm dancing around something, but definitely that's kind of top of mind. Um, yeah, I mean what. I cut you off a little bit.
Speaker 4:You were going to ask um, I was going to ask you, um, I think it was about um personal work. Yeah, and obviously you have a job and you have know work, work that you have to do, yeah, but but, like the, the work that you're gonna do, not that's for you, but that you, you know you don't have some like plan to share it or whatever versus anything that you do want to share or would share yeah and what, how that play where that fits in 2025.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I've been thinking a lot about this and I asked this because I miss seeing your work, and that's not pressure on you to like make me feel good by putting a YouTube video out there. But I get excited not only in conversations with the people in my community and the sharing of ideas, but in people making work that expresses an idea or asks a question.
Speaker 2:I think that's definitely part of like laying the foundation, like what? Like the foundation I want to lay, like that's definitely a byproduct of that. There's a lot that I want to do in terms of personal work, um, and there there are some things that I'm, like you know, kind of working on and I it's kind of working through the questions that I'm working through. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like what the result of that is is going to define the personal work. Yeah, um, I mean, there's obviously a lot of things, some of it logistical, some not that like. Like, can I say, oh, I want to make a YouTube video about this, or like, I want to do a photography project on this, like, no, I'm not sure. But you know, there's definitely a lot of ideas that I'm contending with and I want to figure out a way to translate those into whatever that looks like. I don't know if it looks like a you know, a documentary, or if it looks like a project, or would you say that the dominant I mean?
Speaker 4:I did share a project that I do want to put out with you a couple of months ago, and I'm still setting that up I guess, would you say that the dominant form that your work took in 2024 was just writing, you know? Uh, versus a photography project or a video, would it have been?
Speaker 2:well, that's funny because one of the thing that I really want to do more of in 2025 is writing just to explore concepts and yeah I want to get more um, as do I, like I have, I don't know. I mean I, if we're being completely honest, like our 2024s, mirrored each other in a lot of ways. Maybe mine was more internal yeah, let's go but no, I mean you, just you.
Speaker 2:You know I, I just changed a lot of like core processes of how I kind of operated in the world and, um, you know, you take a step back and you realize like, oh man, I've been doing this, like I've been overcomplicating this for X, y and Z. I need to step back and learn how to do it properly so I can actually, you know, do this the right way, um, and I, I mean that goes for everything, that goes for writing, for photography, for you know, um, I mean it's, yeah, it's been a dull year in terms of, like output, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it hasn't been a dull year in terms of, like evolution or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, growth, growth, I guess.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So iteration on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know, like I can't, I can't be. Like this is what this is going to look, like I can't, I can't say that with certainty, cause I just don't know. Like who knows? Yeah, um, but there's been a lot of like groundwork laid in 2024 and I want to continue to lay that groundwork in 2025. And then, hopefully, I I've always been a believer that if you lay the foundation correctly, then it's like everything is easier. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I, you know, I know you can just jump into things and that's probably like there's benefits to that. That's just not how I really love to do it. I like to kind of think things through and figure out what the reasoning is, because then it's you have a clear, you know, you have a clear structure to put everything up against, and then you know it's like it's just easier to navigate when you have a foundation. Um, so I don't know, maybe I'm just passing the buck, but I see.
Speaker 4:I see, you know, certainly seen um, where it has, where it's bubbled up, cause I think you know there were were a few pieces of work that you put out there, personal work that you put out there this year, and then I've also been privy to some of your professional work, with your job, and there were a few things that you showed me earlier this year where you really could feel um, the time and the thoughtfulness and like the deeper look at what you know, cause, when you have the framework I won't go into specifics, obviously when you have the framework of you know there's a client where you work and they need these results, or they want to try to chip away at this issue that they have with their business, or they want to have a campaign around this or whatever.
Speaker 4:Right, you have this framework of the mission. But some of us can just kind of go oh yeah, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, put that font with this color, you're good to go. You kind of paint by numbers, just relying on how many times you've done this kind of thing to just kind of draw up the greatest hits and put something out there that gets the job done.
Speaker 4:But with the stuff that you showed me, you could see the deeper focus, the deeper investigation like what's the core of this, what's the truth of this, what's the more meaningful thing that can be mined from this particular problem or equation? And the last one that you showed me you could really see that that came through. One that you showed me you could really see that that came through not only in the idea behind it, the idea that it was, but also, um, how it existed, in the context of how you've done it in the past, where you work. Yeah, so that was exciting. Yeah, it's that's.
Speaker 2:I think that's like, that's a, that's a big like. Experimenting in that space. More is something that I've been, you know yeah, it might not be you know as much of. There might not be as much of an output on the personal side of things, but developing in that space and kind of figuring out how to have. I think part of the big decision that happened in the last year is like our decision-making on like staying in Omaha for a little bit longer. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like we want to kind of be here and make this a home in a way which, yeah and I think that you talk about shifting your, how you know what your world, your, your framework of the world is- yeah like suddenly it goes from a personal thing to more of a community sense yeah and that's you know.
Speaker 2:I know that sounds ridiculous for me to say, because of how uninvolved I am in the community, sure, but I think you know, to be involved like okay, maybe this isn't necessarily true, but in my, in my mind, it's like to be involved in the community is to have something like because when you switch out of like a personal dynamic or like a friendship dynamic, like one-to-one or like even a familial dynamic, you move into something that is more of an exchange. It is more of a direct value exchange, like a community is more of a value exchange than it is. Yes, there's family aspects to it, yes, there's like interpersonal aspects to it, but it's more of a.
Speaker 2:It's a larger scale, it's more political, it's more there's a lot that goes into it that you know might not necessarily fit into the same uh structure as, like a, a one-on-one relationship. And so learning how that works and also wanting to, wanting to feed more into that, has been a, it's been a process. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's that's taken up a lot of my time and thought in the last year or so. And like how do we, you know, how do you work with larger groups of people to create a project, rather than just like going to my desk and doing something?
Speaker 4:Well, and how does? How does even uh, uh, on a more subconscious level, so even on a more subconscious level, a subtextual level of your daily life, how does feeling like the place where you live is not the place where you're going to live versus that place feeling like it's the place where you live? And in moving from Los Angeles to here, there was a long time before I was like I live in Omaha or you know council bluffs, you fight against it. Yeah Well, because this is temporary, this is a tool.
Speaker 2:I'm going back. This place is a tool. As soon as I, as soon as I get my agent and sell a script, you know break in like LA is where I belong.
Speaker 4:Yeah, even with my looking at it, with the Pelican cases and the stuff that was meant to be thrown into my truck and go shoot for a client, I'm like this space does not exist in a way that reflects where I live right now with what I'm doing, the work that I'm making. It is an artifact of some a past that doesn't exist anymore, where I would throw all my shit in my truck and go make a video for someone else. I don't do that anymore and I don't want to do that anymore, unless it's a very unique, specific situation. I want to transform this space into something that is connected to what I do, where I am and where I am Meet me where I am, where I am Meet me, where I am right now Creatively with with the, the, the, the platform for my work, which is YouTube, and I'm and I'm and I, I am happily You're committed to that.
Speaker 2:You're making content on YouTube.
Speaker 4:And I'll tell you in 2025, what I'm carrying over is just a connection to that being something that I think I'm supposed to be doing, versus what we talked about in previous episodes. I'm gonna use screenwriting, I'm gonna hijack screenwriting to get this yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Stop using it as a means to an end instead of because approach it as if it was the end.
Speaker 4:That's right because, because that's what allows you to quit. I'm not actually wanting to do this. I'm just using it as a thing to get me this vanity based result, whether it's money or attention or fame or whatever right. But when I think about making videos on YouTube, I'm like, well, I don't, like I know I'm not using it for something even though there has been an element of that, because I struggle with ego and I struggle with vanity to a certain extent.
Speaker 4:So I'll be curious for you. Yeah, cause that does seem like a a marked change from the sort of on. I mean, I remember talking down at the riverfront over the summer.
Speaker 2:We were like Friday night stuff and we were down there.
Speaker 4:It might've been last summer, where Cody was there and it was sort of like asking was Cody was? Was not sure if he was gonna stick around and move to la or whatever and like it was just like a paused moment. Yeah, yeah and my emotions in that moment are are two of my closest friends gonna leave? Me yeah, yeah yeah, but like then also going, I don't. I don't want to put anything out there that would ever make them feel like you know and some kind of pressure or something to stay for me yeah, you know I love these guys, but I'm like you know.
Speaker 4:I've been in a position where people that loved me had to deal with me leaving I'm moving to florida. Mom and dad, I'm moving to florida chris, I'm moving to la or whatever chicago, yeah, I'm out. Yeah, you know, because that was what I felt I had to do, so it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and then it's also just, you know, like I hate the short term pressures of like, oh, I want to do this, I want to, like you know, you state something. It's like like all of my interests are the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, like I'm the same person here, I mean obviously like we're different people but you know, I mean, you know me, you, you follow me, like I'm the same person here that I was, you know when we started doing this or when, like sure, and you know, I don't really have different ambitions Like, yes, some of the you know, maybe structural ways that the world exists have changed a little bit on us. But, yeah, um, I, you know, I'm just figuring out how to you know how to best contend with those things. Yeah, um and um, I, yeah, I think the way it was the, the, the way I talked to the, to Claude about it, it was like it was like, um, you know, dealing with the, the fallout of something that has already happened, and it's like. It's like, yeah, you know there's, they're gonna be like shifts in the way that the world functions in terms of, you know, technology and change and things like that.
Speaker 2:But you just have to. You know, I think the best world views are you know technology and change and things like that. But you just have to. You know, I think the best worldviews are always, you know, they're pretty consistent. But there's also just this idea of like. I want to blend even more, so, like. I hate this idea of like, personal and professional, like yeah not not personal and professional life.
Speaker 2:Like, obviously, like I, like I'm a private person, I like privacy. Like I, like you know family life to stay family life. But I want to better blend, like I don't want there to be like version a, version B, like this is who he is on the podcast and this is who, like I, always strive to just be the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I want to start to embody that more in my public-facing appearance, just making sure that that aligns completely with what we discuss here, what I write about, what my personal work looks like, that aligns directly with what the professional work looks like. The process aligns. That's kind of what. I'm trying to meld and that's what I'm figuring out, and you know it's a slow process, but patience is the best. Um uh, you have to have patience to to make that, to make that work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, patience, and what I struggle with is, um you know, letting emotion really take over and, uh, and subjectivity versus that nice blend of reasonable subjectivity and objectivity.
Speaker 2:You have to fight ego, and you know having people who can call you on? It is completely invaluable. Yeah. And I mean, I mean I just want more. I want more people who I can sit down and have a glass of whiskey with and, like you know, and share ideas and and and for me, which is obviously, you know, from day one, literally day one, meeting you like, you know obviously.
Speaker 4:I'm not like oh, alex, this is what's going on in my life and whatever, it's not a therapy session right away, but just the the freedom to, to express those ideas, to uh communicate, to share lessons from introspection to um be honest with you, know your friends about who you are and and what you're seeing from them as well. Have those constructive dialogues.
Speaker 2:It's not some caught up in the moment thing.
Speaker 4:Well, it's not self-management.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:It's not what you just talked about versions of myself that I manage when I'm in different situations, and I present a version of myself that corresponds to what I want people to think about me all the way down to it actually informs the work that I make because I'm going well, this is what's expected of me, or sort of. This is the character I am in that that world, so the stuff that I have to make has to reflect that, or else it's gonna be it's, it's removed.
Speaker 2:It's funny because it goes back to the original piece of this conversation. You, you don't want to have little like you know, um, like just little drains in the back of your mind yeah where, like you, have to keep this personality alive.
Speaker 2:I have to keep this person right like I have to give them a little bit of my brain power and my energy. Like, just take all that away, Just have like a you know, not a singular focus in like a negative sense, but have a singular focus and just don't worry about any of that other stuff and you're going to be so much more. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say you're going to be more fulfilled or like whatever, but you're going to have more to put towards the things that actually matter.
Speaker 4:So I'm going to be a little bit comical right now, and I don't want to. I don't want to be this way too. I don't want to be this way, because I feel uncomfortable talking about these more moving things, but I know what the opening clip might need to be for this episode and you know old matt loves to go to that low-hanging fruit. In the movie, the mask ben stein's character goes yes, wendy, we all wear masks, metaphorically speaking. So the whole time we're talking about this you're just thinking my brain just keeps that was like wore that vhs out like
Speaker 2:that was.
Speaker 4:I think that was the first vhs that I broke, because we but what kills me is you have a movie that is a comedy and it is, you know, broad and it is out there and it's, you know it's a cartoon, right, yeah, but it has this moment where it does something that's funny ben stein saying that line, and but it, this is the exchange of ideas as well. But you hear it the second, the third time you watch the movie, you're like there's something there. They're touching a nerve there.
Speaker 2:I'm super happy to use the mask as the intro to this podcast.
Speaker 4:But it is true and that's. I think that brings up part of not to bring it back to me, but the goals of 2025, which is to break down those systems of self-management of sort of like. I am creating a character of Matt as a YouTuber, content creator, and I want to take on these characteristics. So I'm going to wear these kinds of clothes. So I'm going to wear these kinds of clothes, or I'm going to say these kinds of things at the beginning of the video.
Speaker 2:Well, see, that's what always gets me when I watch your videos Because like I mean not to be like I know the real Matt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like you and I have had a lot of conversation, like hundreds of hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know of back and forth over over, not crazy amount like you definitely have. We both probably have people that we've known for much longer and had, you know, maybe more conversation with, but it's like whenever I see the video, it's like I can see when there's like a character and I can see when it's just like oh yeah, that's Matt, Yep, I think that that, yeah, and I try to make a point to whenever I see it as something where I'm like, oh, that's Matt, yeah, I try to just at least clock it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yep, take the. Take the reading.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think that that is definitely. It's interesting. And what I love about having a body of work on youtube is I do go back to some of those earlier videos. Before I really was a youtuber, I mean, I was like I think I had a few thousand subscribers or whatever, but I was like I would just be like I kind of want to intro my video where I'm just sitting at my desk and I just someone knocks at the door and I like get startled and turn around and have this weird thing. I'm like I just sounds fun. Yeah, Versus, you know um. Going back to another, you know me be creating the framework for my life through popular culture and the shows and movies that I've watched Jurassic park, mad men and the mask now being my guiding principles for existence. Amen.
Speaker 4:Yeah, amen, you know sort of what's expected Father, son, holy Spirit, that's right.
Speaker 4:That's right, Jurassic Park, Mad Men and the Mask Is you know what's expected of you versus what you want to do, like what you like what you, how you want to express yourself and I certainly had ups and downs through that process. But, um, yeah, the stuff that that I want to move away from is, you know, the playbook, and this is what you're supposed to do and this is what's expected of you. And if you're a tutorial YouTuber or you're a whatever like you, you gotta sound like peter mckinnon when you start off a video or you gotta you gotta this youtuber changes their location at certain points in their a-roll and they get a lot of views. So you got to do that too. Yeah, you just you know just what do I like.
Speaker 4:Well, today, or yesterday today, I liked the idea of setting up a camcorder and just filming myself opening something and not editing it, and doing a bunch of stuff and just putting that out there. So, yeah, I want to take off the mask and make the stuff where, especially the people who know me when they watch, they go. Oh there he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not who's that guy? Yeah, no, I think there's something.
Speaker 4:I mean, I mean, I wreck yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I have like I have these masks. Yeah, that's right always been like since I was, yeah, teenager theater I mean theater is the two masks, you know?
Speaker 4:yeah, it's just I.
Speaker 2:I love the idea of like. It's always been something that I've thought about. Just we create these, you know these personalities to fit and sometimes it's useful, right like it's a psychologically beneficial practice to create. For some things it's literally evolutionarily useful to have different manifestations of yourself, but I think a lot of times it's probably not. I think a lot of times it's, it's probably not, yeah, and the more I you know, tune in, you know I, you know I'm lucky. Okay, I'm lucky enough to do something that is at least semi-adjacent to what. I, you know.
Speaker 2:I get paid for something that's semi-adjacent to what I actually give a shit about in this you know um it, you know is it ideal Sure no but you know, yeah, you know, is it ideal? Sure, no, but you know, yeah, um, just trying to. Not, you shouldn't be different there than you are when you're, you know, creating my oh. This is personal and this is professional. It's like figure out a way to meld it to like it's all the work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all the work, it's all the same process if you want it to be, or you can try to make it different. And then you're going to wonder why do I feel this way and then this way? When I do it this way, let's start breaking down the process. I mean, I don't know, I can't explain it, and maybe it is just subjective, maybe it's not actually happening, but there's something about I think you can tell when you, when you like, when you actually put in the work to something you can. You can tell, even if you were to copy that exact same result. I don't know what that is yeah it's, yeah, no, I'm.
Speaker 2:It's, yeah, no, I'm. Who knows? Maybe not maybe that's. Maybe that's all fake. No, yeah, it's just really complex neural networks simulating consciousness anyways, and you can't tell the difference.
Speaker 4:More on that. Another episode. Yeah, well, happy new year, happy new year. Yeah, happy new year, buddy. I know uh.
Speaker 4:I know in the past that we've done our goals, stuff like this is an hour and 38 episode, but yeah, that's fine, so either but a lot of hyper specificity, and I definitely want to just personally get more specific with some of that, but again, not to the point where the specificity of that just creates a, um, unrealistic or artificial approach to the work. Well, I, you know, want to hit these goals, or I want you know to feel this way throughout the year or at the end of the year when I look back on 2025.
Speaker 2:Every time I make hypers, like I understand, like oh, what's the jargon you're supposed to make Smart goals or spark, or it's like specific measured Right A R yeah, specific measured right a r, yeah, um, yeah, I mean, every time I do that like I don't, like, I don't know, like something I could be introduced to a new idea tomorrow that completely changes the entire, like the next decade of my life. Yeah, probably, maybe not, but like there's a chance, you know, or we could have something that just completely shifts the way I like the next decade of my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Probably maybe not, but like there's a chance you know, or we could have something that just completely shifts the way I see the world and I'm like I have to change everything that could happen. I'm not going to discount that.
Speaker 4:Well, the other thing too is I can sit there and sort of like talk about goals or, uh, you know sort of like results or how I want to feel at the end of the year. But I wonder if that just pops into my head too, and I know I kind of relate everything back to pop culture, but my brain remembers something that I watched or consumed that relates to a point that I'm going to make, and something from the Bear season. Three was this list of non-negotiables and it was like these guiding principles for how they were. He didn't like write down we're going to get three Michelin. I mean, he did have a goal of getting a Michelin star for the restaurant.
Speaker 2:No spoilers, I know, I'm just kidding, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I guess that's a singular goal that requires all this work to achieve Right. So he has something very specific, but he also had, like, these guiding principles, like in the pursuit of that. These are the things that are non-negotiable. Yeah, and to me there's something about, like you know, I'm not going to sit here and be like a hundred thousand subscribers or whatever the one the Michelin star equivalent is to the work that I do. So, whatever that thing ends up being that North Star, I want to develop some of those guiding principles, you know, not letting my ego or vanity take in, not caring. You know, not fixating on metrics, watching out for dopamine. You know, like, I want to come up with those non-businessy, non-self-healthy terms that are specific to me.
Speaker 2:You say, like, non-businessy like. I think this is the most crucial and important advice that any business could take is don't like what are your non-negotiables, what are your principles? What are your principles Like and not? Are your principles what are your principles like?
Speaker 4:and not the fucking principles that you put on your mission statement right shit out every piece of paper that that means absolutely mission jargon, that just yeah, it feels like word salad shit like not that.
Speaker 2:Like what is it that you actually fucking believe in? Right, and that guides every decision that you make? Yeah, whenever you are presented with a conflict, you put it up against this. Yeah. And that's how you decide how you're going to move forward. What are those things? If you can figure out those things like, the rest is easy.
Speaker 4:And that's what I really appreciated about that moment in that in in in the bear was the way it was worded was so specific to him, his voice and all that. It wasn't again like that regurgitated word, salad of mission and values and all that junk you see on all these companies' websites and all this dumb stuff.
Speaker 2:And then you have smaller companies that emulate that stuff. Yeah, right, right, right, it means nothing. Well, it just becomes part of the playbook. Yeah, companies that emulate that stuff. Yeah, right, right, right, it means nothing.
Speaker 4:Well, it just becomes part of the playbook.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And that's the idea is tossing it out and just getting to a real authentic thing. The phrase could just sort of represent a feeling and the feeling is the guiding principle, and the words just sort of capture that or or transfer the, the feeling, into just something that you can look at and go oh yeah, that's, that's right. Um, so yeah, I, I. I think this year has, with experimentation and all the stuff that we've talked about, indulgence versus sacrifice, these are the types of words that help me just be guided through the process in a, in a, in a better way. Um, rather than succumbing to all the more seductive forces of metrics, vanity, ego, bullshit that I have been very, very prone in my, in my lifetime to, to succumb to to succumb to.
Speaker 1:It had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summons.
