Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Studio Sessions
42. Daily Practice or The Art of Doing It Just Because
We often find ourselves drawn to practices that shape our daily lives—not because they promise grand outcomes, but because they ground us in the moment and make us feel alive. Whether it’s meditating to clear the mind, running just to feel the rhythm, or making the bed each and every morning, these habits remind us that joy and purpose don’t always need a finish line. We explored how reframing these routines as acts of optimism, rather than obligations, can transform the experience.
Through our conversation, we discuss the idea that optimism isn’t just blind hope—it’s a deliberate choice to see possibility in every situation, something essential when making work. It’s about balancing discipline with spontaneity, and trusting that the next moment can be good even when the path isn’t clear. - Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
And it'd been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summons.
Speaker 2:What I wanted to talk about was practices that you have in your life, practices that you've had in your life, like me as well, but this idea of something, yeah, all the time, just because. So there's a couple that come to mind. Um, just to kind of give context to what I'm, what I'm referring to, even though it's, it's probably pretty obvious, um, you know, writing just things that you do not because they're going to lead to some greater outcome, right, but, and they might tie into some things, that you do not because they're going to lead to some greater outcome, right, but, and they might tie into some things that you have ambitions built around, but mainly you just do it because it makes you feel better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, so for me, at least right now, and these are things that none of these are really new, um, but you know, sometimes you weave in and out, but meditation has been really big for me. Um, I, sometimes I'm obsessed with it, like I'll do like 40, 50, 60 minutes in a day, or, and that's nothing compared to some. I know some people do that, but it's not because I'm like, oh, I'm going to, I've got to meditate, it's just I feel better after. I feel just more alive, less bothered by silly things, aside from meditation, maybe not right now, but when the weather's nice running, I'll just you know, there's something really nice about just, oh, just get out the door and go for a run.
Speaker 2:And it used to be. I had to reframe myself, cause it used to be I'd only run in competitive situations or could only run when I had some kind of goal in mind, and then over the last probably five years or so, that has slowly shifted to. I just like running to run, to kind of like be out there and, you know, listen to music or just be with my thoughts Um writing there, and you know, listen to music or just be with my thoughts um writing, and that's one that you know I'm in and out of too. Um, I was sitting in the, in the, in the sauna at the gym today. It's like that's one um, you just do that, you take a cold shower and do some push-ups like that as just physical activity kind of exertion, as a practice. Um, and I was. I was wondering, yeah, what, what are your? And then this podcast comes up right, that definitely is this is definitely one which is funny to think about.
Speaker 2:But I was having a conversation is kind of like a. It's become that that thing for me, um, and I'm. There's others too, but those are the ones reading. I mean, I try to sit and you've, you've been doing that a lot.
Speaker 3:So yeah.
Speaker 2:I've kind of set. I've kind of set you on, like I've had times where photography is that like I'll go out and I'll shoot for an hour a day. You're like, regardless of what the circumstance of my day is, I'll try to fit that in. Um yeah, I'm just curious what like what in your life? What first of all, how do you feel about that? I think it's an important thing. You have things that can kind of ground you and you're not going to fit them all in every day, but there's something liberating about.
Speaker 2:You're not doing it because you're trying to keep a streak, or you're not doing it because you're trying to reach an outcome. You're doing it because it's just a beautiful thing to do. Yeah, and I, I just reframing that is such a core thing to um, just doing anything over a long period of time, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, and I've you know the, the things I think about first. When it comes to, like you know, practice or a practice, a daily practice, a weekly practice, the first thing for me is making my bed every morning.
Speaker 2:You do it every morning, every single morning, and you've been doing that for a while. I remember talking about that.
Speaker 3:A long time and it's just non-negotiable.
Speaker 2:The only days that I don't make my bed when I wake up is when I know it's the day that we're washing the sheets yeah um, and it still bothers me when I don't make the bed is that like a get a, get a win, almost get a quick win it always is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's part of that, yeah yeah, I listen to first first win of the day yeah, yeah, you don't give in to I listened to a jack dorsey interview and he was talking about, yeah, taking a cold shower in the morning. Yeah, and he's like I do it because I hate it. Yep and he's like if I wake up in the morning and I take a you know three minute cold shower, he's like that's the worst my day can be. Yeah, like you know, I did that, gotta win. Yeah, I could do nothing for the rest of the day it's. It's like I did, made myself get out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you know, I did that, gotta win. Yeah, I could do nothing for the rest of the day. It's. It's like I did made myself get out of my comfort zone. Yeah, and you know, get a small victory there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like making the bed kind of falls into that yeah, and for a while maybe a year and a half I was um doing daily walks and every tuesday and thursday doing strength training and I have let you know, I've let this feeling of being in not productivity but sort of like results debt, like I've not gotten the results in my life that I want, whether it's revenue or um, consistency with the things I make, and it again doesn't have to be always something that's public facing like a YouTube video. It could be a short story, it could be, you know, just going out for a photography session. It doesn't always have to be something that's like on a channel, um, and I have let that, that feeling of being behind, tell me that, well, you don't have time to do. You don't have time to do these things and once you get on top of this stuff, then you can go back to those practices. Those are a luxury you can't afford right now and it's stupid, and you know I make time for stuff that's kind of pointless.
Speaker 2:I know that feeling so much that I was thinking about that today I'll sit and I'll do nothing, or I'll just worry about something for two hours instead of, instead of just cutting it, like, okay, I'm going to go do this and just reset every like, re orient myself, I'll mess around for two hours and then I'll lose all of the opportunity to actually do the thing, because I was so, yeah, anxiety ridden about not doing that, so dumb yeah, and I mean I look back on that time very fondly because, like I had a lot of confidence and I I just felt really good about doing something I didn't want to do every day.
Speaker 3:Actually I I did really enjoy the walks, but but the time commitment, which is about 40 minutes, and then in the summer it was hard because I have to go really early in the morning so I don't get all sweaty and gross. They've taken, you know, a whole showering process and all that Um, but definitely just felt a lot better having the, the discipline in place. You know just how I looked, you know, from a physique standpoint and just knowing that I was maintaining that discipline. Other practices you know every day making dinner for the family. Obviously, certain nights are an exception and we have sort of you know, systems built in where Aaron can take over and make dinner when I've got something going on. But and that it's just non-negotiable when dinner's over, the whole kitchen gets cleaned immediately. Dishes get done, stuff gets put away, stove gets cleaned, counters get cleaned, floor gets swept, table gets wiped down, like it's just there's no there's no compromise on that.
Speaker 3:So that's a daily practice and I really enjoy that time. Whether I'm listening to music, sometimes I'll listen to a podcast or I'll watch a video uh, you know, have a video up, um, you know so. So there's there's some passive consumption going on sometimes while I do that, um. And then, yeah, the morning reading. Uh, you know, I spent a lot of my nights going down rabbit holes on YouTube, and this isn't a lot of times. It's what stuff is being made right now, what's interesting that's going on in this social media outlet, um, how are people expressing themselves? What tools are they using? There's just as much curiosity with, like, how people make stuff. Um, that you know.
Speaker 3:Then, with the subject matter, uh, but I felt a big detachment from reading. So I said to myself this year kind of a resolution um, you're going to, instead of spending time on your phone in the morning, um, you're going to, instead of spending time on your phone in the morning, you're going to wake up every morning between five, 30 and six and go upstairs for an hour plus and just be reading. Um, I put the little YouTube fireplace on. I have records and I put those quietly in the background. A cup of coffee and I just read, uh, and it's been wonderful. You know, I just finished fear and loathing in Las Vegas. I had, um, uh, the two of the rabbit books from John Updike. I'm onto my next book right now, which I've got a little quote from that I'll bring up in a little bit, which is a deep cut for you yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah so uh, and I'll explain that a little bit about that book. So, yeah, it's uh, those types of things are really valuable and it does tie into what I'm going to read from this, especially as someone that was very successful in his life. This book's about Conrad Hilton, who founded the Hilton Hotel Chains and his upbringing and where he learned his values, his education.
Speaker 2:And explain the significance.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I saw this book just at a I don't remember where exactly. It was a thrift store, it was a shop or an antique store, I don't even remember. But the reason I was drawn to it is because the show Mad Men, which in early episodes of this you know, I had told Alex he's got to check it out and I quoted Mad Men several times, you know, doing what was expected versus what we want to do.
Speaker 3:Anyway, conrad Hilton plays a role in the show in the later seasons because I think he's sort of cordial cordy. He meets don at a country club. Don doesn't know who he is. There's a real connection there and authenticity that conrad really responds to and he sort of looks to don for information, advice, whatever. Don wants to represent them as their advertising agency. Conrad already has one their relationship developed. So it's actually one of my favorite elements of that show was all the scenes with Conrad Hilton. I almost wish someone on YouTube and maybe they already do has like a super cut of all the Conrad Hilton stuff. Anyway, so when I saw the book I gravitated toward it because I'd like to learn more about him. But there's something about like being in the Mad Men universe that.
Speaker 3:I am nuts about yeah and that's part of why I read the updyke books, because they take place in the 60s and I I just sort of in my mind while I'm reading them I'm like where's don draper right now? What's he doing?
Speaker 3:you know, in new york, versus where the updyke books take place, which I think is like Pennsylvania, uh. So, yeah, uh, uh, I've been enjoying this. You know it's a straight up kind of autobiography, memoir thing, um. But regards to the daily practice, something that I thought was interesting, this is this is a twofold, and sorry if I'm transitioning out of what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Um this, come back.
Speaker 3:This is early in the book and Conrad's talking about a time in his life that's the early 1900s, like 1907. And Helen Keller is a prominent figure in American life at this time. For those of you who don't know, helen Keller is a woman who was born blind, deaf and dumb and came to get college, educated, learn how to communicate, very intelligent, all that stuff and overcame those obstacles of being blind, deaf and dumb to really have an amazing life. And so the passage is a little bit—it's not super long but Conrad's talking about wanting to read Helen's book.
Speaker 3:Helen Keller, blind, deaf and dumb, had written a book called Optimism. To me, this alone was miraculous. I found it on my mother's sewing table and concealed it under my pillow for private consumption, I believe I was just a little ashamed of this new desire to think, and I want to talk about that. That's idea, one that I took from this passage. I wasn't sure what father or the girls would make of it, his desire to think. After I had finished the slim volume, I knew I could talk it over with mother, for the miracle of Helen Keller's optimism, although they were not members of the same church, had its roots in exactly the same soil as my mother's faith. She wrote that, quote optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope, end quote. And summed up by stating that quote optimism is the harmony between man's spirit and the spirit of God pronouncing his works good, end quote, end quote. That struck me first of all, the thing about wanting to think. I think about that with regards to this.
Speaker 2:Think about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what we do on this podcast all the time, and I think when we first met and had our first coffee not that I consciously thought this coffee, not that I consciously thought this but when you have a conversation with someone that exchanges ideas can go to profound places, deep thoughts, vulnerability, and not necessarily like gushing about your private life, but just sort of like I can just be truthful and open and honest. Those types of intellectual exchanges and challenging each other's thoughts, notions, ideas opening up. Well, if you heard about this, or if you read this or check this out, you might be interested in this. What you're talking about is actually this Sorry, my buttons keep tapping on the table.
Speaker 2:I'm like banging the microphone, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, when you meet someone you know and my wife, erin is great for this you know lots of great conversations exchanging ideas. My mom is great with this. My my wife, erin, is great for this. You know lots of great conversations exchanging ideas. My mom is great with this. My sister, heather, is great with this.
Speaker 3:You know, there are a lot of people in my life where I can, you know, just completely lose time in a deep, long conversation about ideas and people that are open to new ideas and people that are giving new ideas to new ideas and people that are giving new ideas. So for him, at this age of I think he's roughly 15, uh, he might've been somewhere between 15 and 20. I can't remember exactly, but he is drawn to think beyond just what's immediately in front of him. Um, wake up, have breakfast, go to work. You know his dad owned a, a small, uh sort of, uh, general store.
Speaker 3:Um, in, uh, san Antonio, new Mexico. Uh, you know they were frontier living and all that. And, uh, you know, sometimes you can just get caught up in just those things that are right there in front of you and he starts having this desire to see things in a deeper way and new ideas and um, helen keller was a big inspiration for him, so I just love that, um, and I love when I can meet people where you feel the relationship go beyond the surface. Yeah, um, and they open up new doorways and pathway pathways for you by introducing you to a show, a movie, a book, an idea, whatever. Oddly enough, as I was driving over, I was listening to the first Tears for Fears album called the Hurting, and the song that was playing when I turned up the truck was Ideas as Opiates and I was just like and I knew I was going to bring this up.
Speaker 3:Then, moving on to um the optimism and faith thing, this is something that I've talked about with my wife um a lot, because I am like that eternal optimist, the dreamer, the person that just always focused on um hope and optimism and and, and the foundation of that being this unwavering faith I have in a non-religious way for me personally, um, faith that I have, that I'm going to figure this stuff out Like I'm gonna, and it doesn't mean like have a handle on it. It's all buttoned up and tied with a bow. There's always going to be challenges, obstacles, setrations, all that kind of stuff. But like I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig out of this more every day and start to get a handle on things, and sometimes I might regress but then move forward. You know all that stuff and it's just unwavering. I've just never, never, felt down about what. You know, what am I doing? Big picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Small things. Sure, like what am I? Am I doing this or what like, what like whatever? And you know my wife, she listened to the podcast air.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to talk too much about our differences, but she is very pragmatic, realistic, practical, and I think at least my feeling is that there's much more pessimism present than optimism. And that doesn't mean that my wife isn't hopeful or excitable uh, you know, passionate about things, but there's just, jen feels like there's just some general pessimism and it causes, you know, us to have, uh, entered energistic clashes sometimes where it's like what's he doing? Yeah, you know, um, and so the reason I was struck by that is I feel like sometimes, when I'm full-blown with my optimism and doing the things that I'm doing, that maybe other people don't understand from the outside and sometimes I don't even understand. For the most part in my life I feel like I've been surrounded by people that don't share the kind of optimism and faith that I have. There's much more practical, realistic, kind of go the safe route, do the predictable thing, do the responsible thing, don't take big risks.
Speaker 3:Why are you doing all this stuff? Just, get a job, punch the clock, get a 401k, push your kids through college Like just, and I can't do it. Uh, I can't, I can't do it. Um, but I, to wrap up the point, I often wonder what would this journey be like if I was around a bunch of optimists that had that type of optimism and faith, like a Conrad Hilton or a Helen Keller? What would that be like to have the majority of the people that are in close orbit to me be that way?
Speaker 2:Just like oh, let's try this. Yeah, let's do it this way.
Speaker 3:Or just you know to say I believe in you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I believe, I have faith in what you're doing. I may not understand it, it may not make sense to me, but I'm optimistic. And I'm optimistic and have faith that what you're doing is going to get you where you want to go.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's that makes me think of this, this idea, like there really isn't a like, there isn't a future per se. We say, we say like I like, in the future this will happen, or I think that everything I'm doing is leading to this, or in the past this happened. So because of that, the future is destined to look like X. Right, and we do that. We look at that as if that's the model, as if there's three zones that you can exist. Okay, you can look at the past, and that's going to inform the present, and then that's going to inform the future, when in reality, it's kind of just there's thoughts. You have thoughts about what, what's coming, and you have thoughts about what's been, but the only thing that is actually real is where you are right now, and whatever you think at that moment is going to inform the next moment, and that's just. You're basically building a really long chain of moments, but there is no like.
Speaker 2:It's going to be like this and we can make projections or you know, there's oh, it's probable that this is going to lead to this, but there's not like, but there's nothing guaranteed yeah for sure course, probably the best course of action is to approach it as if the future is going to work out whatever, whatever, whatever that next moment is is going to work out in your favor. But then also, if you hit it and it doesn't, then okay, that that is what it is and you just okay, well, the next one's. And it's better to exist in a moment. If we are where we are right now and and I'm really optimistic or positive, that's a better state of existence than if I'm really pessimistic or negative because that's just draining on me constantly, yes, whereas the other, the, the optimistic state, is feeding me and it's like giving, giving me life and energy. And if that's all that there is, is like where we are right, right at this moment, then I think it's just, it makes sense, to lean into the, the optimistic, positive state more than and I get it, you know you're, you're well, I think this is going to happen, or because X, y and Z have happened, then that's informed how I approach this.
Speaker 2:But you know, I think, if possible, it's always probably you're, you're, you're at an advantage if you can just approach whatever the present moment is from a yeah, from an upbeat, and it's probably going to inform, and I think there's actually they've they've done studies on people who are optimistic and people, and there's always outliers, but I think generally you see better outcomes, whatever that means, if you, if you carry a more optimistic attitude, because then at least your, your vision of you know, whatever the moment to moment, whatever chain you're building is, at least it's carrying a positive energy rather than a negative one. And I think you also see, I think there's, you know, equal evidence, for if you carry a pessimistic mindset or a negative mindset, then oh, why do more bad things happen? It's like, well, no more bad things are happening. The same things are happening.
Speaker 2:You just see them in a bad light, whereas you know, you, you, I see them in a bad light, whereas you know, you, you, I mean, yeah, you have two groups of people and then the same five things happen to them. You can get totally different stories from the two people of oh man, that was great, oh, it was terrible. It's like, well, you both did the same thing. Yeah, it's just how you looked at it, how you approached it. I think I think your optimism really, really rubs off, too, in a good way. I think you know we will leave conversations and you know you never feel like I'm exhausted, yeah, like I'm beat, not that like there are some people, though, that you'll have a conversation with and it's just like that was that was draining, that was very, you know, I it's. It's just not fun to be like, oh, that's. You know, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, everything's terrible, my life is awful. And then, yeah, it's like, okay, I don't know how to, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:What was interesting too in in the book is sort of the fallout, if you will, of the optimism and the faith In 1907, sort of an early symptom of the Great Depression to come. There was a run on some of the banks and Hilton's dad who was running this large store in San Antonio, new Mexico. He had to borrow money to pay for the inventory. But then there was a run on the banks and people couldn't buy the inventory so he was just underwater on everything that he had for the store. And you know, some people might just fold, they might just go, you know, and they reference, you know, and not to make judgments about people that ended their lives when the depression or even this bank run happened, but there were people that felt the only solution was to end their life.
Speaker 2:This is the worst thing that's happened. There's no way out of this. Yeah, no way out.
Speaker 3:And not to say that those people were pessimistic. You know I don't want to, you know certainly don't want to speak for somebody's decision to do that. But they sat there and went well, all of this inventory is worthless, it has no value right now. People don't have any money to buy it. So we have to come up, we have to figure out a whole new thing that we have that provides people with value, and figure out what that you know, what we can do to stay afloat. And so they, you know, as a family kind of figured out, like you know, well, mom is a really good cook and we have more space in our home than we absolutely need and there's like five kids and both parents and all that. So they said there are people that travel through San Antonio and there's not a lot of places for them to stay. What if we board them at our home? And the big value add was that this amazing home cooking from our mother will be, you know, be part of the package deal of however much it costs per night for somebody to stay there.
Speaker 3:So they you know the kids went out and they, everywhere they went, they'd help people with their luggage, they would spread the word I mean this real, this real kind of uh, uh, grassroots movement to let everybody know that their home was available to travelers and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:And, sure enough, bit by bit, more people would stay at their home talk about the amazing food and it was the first Hilton Hotel. And this complete disaster in their life of the running the banks and the stores, inventory becoming worthless but then having a ton of debt for that inventory ended up being the thing that led to Conrad Hilton creating the Hilton hotel chain in their house in San San Antonio, new Mexico. It's just, it's just, uh, you know, uh, I haven't got to the point where he can actually reflect on that experience and how, how it led to. Um, you know, I haven't got to the point where he can actually reflect on that experience and how, how it led to, you know, a life changing series of events. And not to say that we all have to aspire to owning a multi hundred million dollar, a hundred million dollar business, and that's the true marker of success. There's different markers of success for all of us and it doesn't always come down to commerce and power and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:I mean part of it might just be, though every day you wake up and you return to it with a positive attitude, like and if the, if the hotel thing wouldn't have worked out, they would have probably done something else. And they would have probably done something else if that hadn't worked out and they would have.
Speaker 2:And so he's never down, he's never like down and out, it's always just well, this next thing will work out Right and you might go through your entire life. There's nothing promised, that you know. We like to sell the illusion that if you do that, if you have that attitude, eventually something will hit and you will strike gold. That's the fallacy, that's the part that's not guaranteed. But if you approach every day, if you get up and you approach every day like, oh, this is this can turn out to be the best thing. Yeah, this can be good, this can be good, then the worst case scenario is you just go through your entire life, having had a series of days where you were positive and about the world and you felt like, man, this is going to be great, this is going to be great. And you know, if you say this is going to be great, this is going to be great, this is going to be great, this is going to be great, and then you die.
Speaker 2:You went out thinking that everything was going to be great, right, went out thinking that everything was going to be great, right, like there's no, you can kind of look in, we could create this judgment and be like, well, they never made it. It's like, well, every day they were positive. Yeah, like that's kind of as good as you could ask for, and I think it's just reorienting ourselves a little bit of you know, getting again talking about practices. It's just like it's every day. You're just like this is going to be good, this is going to be good. Eventually, you kind of buy into that and maybe it works out. Maybe you, you know, achieve success and, like you, fulfill your wildest dreams, and maybe not, and I don't think it really matters. Either way, yeah, if you're playing it from that, just like, okay, well, I was just up and at them every day and I was happy.
Speaker 3:And going back to the Tom Green and Seth not Seth Rogen, Joe Rogen thing, that would be awesome too.
Speaker 3:It was fascinating in that clip on another level, to have Tom Green explain to Joe what they were doing with this stream and Joe, like all this optimism, unfurls, you know what the possibilities, what this could mean, what this could do. You know he's certainly every time a technology is brought about, there's a negative element to it and then there's a positive element, and Joe just latched on to the positive and what it would mean for him as somebody who's in show business at the time was that he hosted, and probably having frustrations with some of that and seeing the optimistic outlook on what this technology could bring about. I don't want this to sound like this is self-congratulatory and I know I make that caveat often when I tell a story. But I had something happen to me. It was sort of like one of those super lucky moments. But I had something happen to me. It was sort of like one of those super lucky moments, but then there was a negative outcome and I have, you know, just naturally deploy optimism on it that you know, sort of this it wasn't meant to be or you know whatever. But I'll tell this quick story. You know, for those of you who haven't seen me on other social media or whatever.
Speaker 3:Like I've been going pretty hard on collecting vinyl records and, um, you know physical media and the form, you know music, physical media and all that. I was at a thrift store after I picked up my daughter from a birthday party and I was going through all the junkie thrift store records and a guy comes to me and goes hey, they just wheeled out a big cart full of records. If you want to go check them out. I'm like how nice is it that this guy tipped me off, because had he not, I wouldn't have gotten there right right away. I walk over there's two women going through the two stacks of records and I can see them pulling out some pretty good stuff, like a self-titled boston record, alice cooper, pink floyd, like stuff you dream about finding in a thrift store, and not all of it's worth like 50 bucks a record, you know, but it's, you know, pretty good and the records that this Goodwill are only a dollar each. So I'm waiting. You know I don't want to jump in there and start going through and waiting for them to get done. They took like 10 records, right, 10 records with them and, and, and and uh ferreted them away.
Speaker 3:Now I'm not always just keeping the records I buy. Sometimes if I get a record that's a buck and it's worth $15, $20, I'll take it to the record shop, sell it to them for $6, $7, $8, and then use that money either sometimes to pay bills and make ends meet or to buy some records that I really want. And in the stack there's like 100 records. So if you've got 100 records that you're buying for $1 and you can get $3, $4, $5, $6, $7 for each of them, that's some quick money, real fast.
Speaker 3:So I had my daughter get a shopping cart and I'm literally just putting record after record. It's all these classic rock grateful, not grateful, that, uh, jerry garcia, kansas, allman brothers band, and again, these records aren't worth 50 each, but I can make some okay money off of them and keep a few of them. Van halen record all this stuff going in there and there's a woman next to me, kind of like I was with the two women that were looking through. She's kind of like waiting for me to get done so she can look through them. She's like you're taking all the good ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm taking all the good ones and she's a little crestfallen because I'm taking them all and I'm starting to feel bad because I'm just going to flip most of them for a profit. And she could be someone that actually just wants to enjoy the music or put them in her collection. So eventually I'm like well, you know, if there's a few records in here, I don't need to take them all. If there's a few records you want to pick out, she's like well, that Van Halen records. You know, can I take a look at that? And she does, and she looks at it.
Speaker 3:I scan it using the Discogs app. It ends up being like a $50 record, which is like pretty good for a thrift store. And I'm like you know, if you're going to put it in your collection and listen to it, please enjoy it. I'm like is there anything else you want to look through? She's like no. And then later on she came back and she actually gave me a record she didn't want because she conferred with her husband and found out that they already have a copy. So she gave it back to me, not the Van Halen record, this other record.
Speaker 3:So I get home and I'm thinking about that Van Halen record and I'm like something didn't seem right about that Scan on Discogs no something didn't seem right about how it scanned on Discogs Cause you can scan the barcode using the Discogs app, but I'm like I don't think that was a 2020 record. So I look on Discogs and all the Van Halen records. For this record called Balance, which was made in 1995, they're all on colored vinyl like red or whatever color.
Speaker 3:Well, this was black vinyl and it was in a plastic sleeve and it had a paper insert that had the lyrics and the whatever. I think that was an original. So I look up. I think that was an original. So I look up. Now, for those of you who don't collect records, records from the 90s, from like rock bands, are very hard to find. First of all, most of the people aren't old enough to where they're getting rid of their collection. But they didn't make a lot of vinyl records in the 90s because everything was CDs and cassettes to a lesser degree. So I look it up and an original copy of Van Halen's Balance album, which is their rarest album in all forms, is starting at around $330. Oh no, there's one guy on Discogs, which is crazy, but he has it listed for eleven hundred dollars, yeah, and people have sold it for five hundred six hundred dollars and I'm sitting there going, not that I lost out on the money yeah I'm going how awesome would it be to own such a rare thing, yeah, something that is highly desired.
Speaker 3:It's a, it's a band I like, but I don't, you know, I don't love, yeah, especially the sammy hagar years. I'm not as a big a fan. So I'm sitting there like kind of beating myself up a little bit, mostly because of the mistake and would you have kept it? Yes, yeah, if it would have scanned at 300 something dollars, I would have said so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Like monetarily it doesn't. If it would have scanned at 300 something dollars, I would have said so it doesn't matter. Like monetarily it doesn't matter Right.
Speaker 3:That would have just been an indicator of its sort of rarity. And there's something for me about you know. It's not like it's some big, like long-term investment it's going to be worth $3,000 in years or whatever but there's just something about owning something that's so rare and special. That's that's interesting to me and I could end up going in this journey of collecting. You know, these things going that's a little bit on the surface, or vain, or you know it's ego, or you know whatever it's something that's not a good.
Speaker 2:There's just a human.
Speaker 3:Uh, there's, there is a security there yeah and that you just have something that has value to it well, there's something about like knowing when something is valuable versus just kind of. Oh, another van halen record. You know, and I've seen Van Halen records when I go record picking, you know, there's one from 1988 called OU812, and I got it at a thrift store for $2, and it's worth like $50, and I traded it in at the record store, you know. So I just the thing that I was beating myself up about was just like you've been picking, you know, and tracking down vinyl records for a long time. How could you overlook this? Yeah, I mean dude, I'll grab.
Speaker 3:I'll grab a pile of like obscure country and like uh, I don't know classical records from a thrift store and like scan them all and read the matrix on it and like figure out if they're worth anything. And on this one I just like, I just like immediate, was like eh, it's just a Van Halen record.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:No, big deal.
Speaker 2:And she's probably. I wonder what she thought if she knew she looked like someone who might know.
Speaker 3:I mean, she was hip and she had, like you know, kind of cool retro clothes on and a cool haircut and all that. And her husband has a record collection that they you know both. So there's certainly a possibility that she knew it was special. But you know, but I, you know, I don't, you know, I don't dwell on the possibility that you know she pulled one over on me.
Speaker 2:I certainly don't go to that sort of oh yeah, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not taking it from there, I'm just saying, like your perspective is I don't know how I missed this and to her she's just like wow, I can't believe. I like, I can't believe how lucky, or like what had to align for me to get this record.
Speaker 3:But I think someone that's really rooted in pessimism and maybe doesn't have a lot of faith in life, the world or hope or whatever those ingredients, wouldn't get over it. It would really bother them whether it was the money they lost or just feeling kind of dumb At least that's my read and my optimism kicks in and it took a little while about 48 hours for me to kind of just like let it go, just let it go. But you know and this isn't, this isn't a thing where it's like it was meant to be this way the records with the right person. I mean, I had those thoughts right away, but it really was about 48 hours later. That I'm like, I'm good with it. I just was not supposed to have that record.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is what it is at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:I sit there and immediately start going. How does this improve your eye for these things? And are you going to trust your instincts when you see something you know? You know like it's just, it continues to hone that. That uh sense.
Speaker 2:You, just you did, though I mean I think you kind of did the. You know, you had that instinct of, ah, I'm taking everything and she's just here, yeah, and I was just in that position and I know how uncomfortable it was for me. And you the right thing. You, you said, okay, what would I have wanted those people to do? And you did that thing, and it's funny cause, and you know what, like that's much better, I think, than if you would have gotten that record.
Speaker 2:You, you identified something that caused you to feel some bit of friction, or just a feeling an emotion that you were aware of and you said I don't want this person to have that because it wasn't pleasant for me. And then you did what you could. I mean that's great, that's kind of.
Speaker 3:And part of why I do that is I had that sense. That uh sense is you know I go to a lot of estate sales and estate sales if you're a vinyl hunter and I don't always go primarily for records, but the people that do show up and show up hours early to get the vinyl records, whether they know what's there or it just like they saw in the background of the picture there's a stack of records. Those those guys are pretty tenacious and every whenever they walk out. Like I went to one um one estate sale and I didn't show up early, I couldn't get there early enough because I had to watch my kids, which I'm totally fine with.
Speaker 3:I wasn't tore up about it at all, but there were like some amazing 80s records like violent femmes and the smiths and like these were original, old records that are impossible to find out in the world, um, and so this guy showed up at like seven, six or 7am for an estate sale that starts at nine and got most of them. Two other people came out, guys that I know that are usually at estate sales for records, and I always have this thought I'm like how cool would it be if one of them just walked up to you because they know you're also a vinyl person and they were like pick one and it's yours for five bucks or you can just have it. I'm like man, that would be so amazing.
Speaker 3:So I sit there and I go. How can you do something like that?
Speaker 2:Well, and that's kind of, you know, it's kind of a nice bow on the optimism metaphor, is? You see? I think part of that gift is that you can see what you think would be nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then by being able to see that then you can do it. Then you can do it, yeah, and then at that point the only barrier you have to get over is just the act of doing it. Once you get over that once or twice, it's easy to just do it over and over again. The optimism gives you a vision of something that's possible. Then you just do that thing. What a great feeling you get to. You know, you can almost transpose your experience onto that person of oh man, how cool would that be to just be given, you know, a Smith's record or whatever. Yep, do you think there's a difference between, like skepticism and pessimism?
Speaker 3:Draw a line yeah, I think so yeah.
Speaker 2:What would your line be there?
Speaker 3:um I think those are just two things that I think they get yeah, skepticism to me is like a another word for this is just me off the top of my head processing this cold. Uh, you know, I think of that cautiously optimistic, you know? Um, not quite, can you know. Your conviction isn't that it's a bad thing, but you're. You probably may be leaning towards a negative interpretation, but there's still room.
Speaker 2:So you can be like a skeptical optimist? I don't know about that, yeah.
Speaker 3:But I think if, if someone is generally more skeptical rather than pessimistic and opt or optimistic, I feel like you know it's a part of the gradient that we talked about in another episode you know, do you think it is a gradient of, like skepticisms in the middle and then pessimisms on the left? Yeah, and my thought is that skepticism leans more toward pessimism. You know it's more toward that end of the spectrum, Um, but yeah, that's sort of like cautious, cautious.
Speaker 2:How would you define skeptic skepticism?
Speaker 3:Uh, just right off the top of my head, someone, um, that is reluctant to believe, or or um, form an, a strong opinion about something that that they've been presented with. Yeah, and obviously you have, like, you know, there's like a phrase for something skeptic. I don't need to dwell on that, but that, that that's my, uh, my takeaway from that, um, whereas pessimism to me is that people just sort of by default, are in a place of the worst possible outcome, or or a bad outcome. Um, you know, the car broke down. It's all negative. Well, maybe it broke down, you know, I, I'm the I'm.
Speaker 2:This is, this is down. It's all negative.
Speaker 3:Well, maybe it broke down you know, I'm the this is, this is maybe there's something to see here. Well, I'll sit there and be like like, like I'll go on autopilot while I'm driving and I will forget to take an exit. Yeah, and if my wife's with me, you know, and she's very kind about it, but she's, it frustrates her, yeah, and I'm like maybe we were supposed to miss that exit because it you know, that's exactly what I say whenever I'm.
Speaker 3:I mean, it makes me feel better, but then I sit there and I go, you know, and I'm not religious at all, but you know, and I don't want to sit there and be like, oh, the spirit was guiding me and missing that thing, but I do sit there and go.
Speaker 2:You believe in like synchchronicity though, which is yeah, just when things happen in a pure like, we'll sit down and have a conversation we haven't talked in two weeks and then we'll have the same exact thing to talk about, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That or, you know, I didn't take that exit because, whatever I was thinking of at the time or not thinking of, whatever I did, what was the thing that was supposed to happen in that moment? And I realized it a minute later and went a different way. And maybe that's what kept me from getting in a car accident or all of that stuff, or all of that stuff, and I don't know. That that's true, but I have to feel like that's a result of optimism.
Speaker 2:It's just putting a positive spin on any adversity. I do think there's a layer to our world that I talked about this a little bit before we started recording, but I I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I think there's. I think there's layers. It's layers is a metaphor, but I think you know it's, it's useful. Um, in this context, I think there is a baseline layer to our world, our reality.
Speaker 3:Yes, and.
Speaker 2:I think you hear things like thinking makes it so and things like that. I think that actually is pretty true to that baseline layer of reality. But these are only primal things. This is coincidence, are only like primal things. This is coincidence. This is there's this narrative that developed that, um, what's a good example? Thinking that you're gonna um, like self-actualization, like I'm gonna be wealthy, that you're going to manifest, manifest it, yeah, manifesting things. That's taking this base reality of thinking makes it so, and you're going to be like coincidences occur and there's things that will happen. And you're kind of trying to apply that to something that's artificial, like money is an artificial thing, the concept of money completely an artificial thing.
Speaker 2:It's an artificial thing that concept of money completely an art like it's an artificial thing that's built on top of this. It's, you know, if we're doing like a layer one this is money's the layer two or the layer three, and so I don't think, like, like thinking makes it so might work in terms of that base layer, like being, like coming into contact with somebody who you're supposed to connect with. Yeah, that that's something that works on a primal level. You know, being, um, being in certain places or around certain things or certain energies or whatever, like things like that, and this sounds pretty woo, woo, yeah, coming out. But I do do think that we have this, like there's an arithmetic to that. That kind of works out. Yeah, and there has been this corruption where you try to take these things that are artificial, like time or money or things like that, and apply it and it's like, oh, we're going to actualize or manifest this. I think those things are just it's kind of just a marketing tactic, like somebody's trying to sell something.
Speaker 3:Thought leadership.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't, I like, I don't think you, like you might manifest, like you're not manifesting wealth.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:You're. You, you might be having an idea, because you think like, oh, I want wealth, and then you reverse, engineer that process and here is like a number of steps that I would have to take to get there. But I think what you're talking about, like the synchronicity, is. I think that's just. There is something to thinking makes it so in that sense where I think thinking makes it so.
Speaker 3:But then also going back to, like, um, trying to have a positive impact on other people's lives in small ways, you know, like I don't sit there and go, okay, well, I'm gonna let this lady take a record because in the big picture it's gonna come back to me tenfold because I'm gonna get money or time or whatever. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:It's just sort of like karma. Karma makes more sense when you because people try to put karma into the perspective of I'm going to give money and I'm going to get money, and it's money. Again, it's an art, it's completely artificial construct that is useful, it's a useful tool, but it's something that we've constructed. A lot of what we look at as reality, or our realities, are just completely. They're not that foundational layer, they're layer two, they're layer three, they're abstractions, they're things that we've built because, in lieu of understanding that, you know whatever that atomic arithmetic is, that kind of gives logic to everything. Um, we've created these things that we can comprehend, and the same goes for art.
Speaker 2:I, you know, we've talked about this in terms of art, a lot making things where your, your artistic capability is limited to the level of your intellect. If you choose to play that game and, yeah, if you want to make something that is built on these artificial ideas, then that's the limit, that's as far as you can go. But the things that really kind of transcend that are the things that plug into that core, that logic that guides everything. Saying this, I understand how it probably can come off as just like whoa, okay, whatever man, but you know, exploring a new idea in real time and and and not that you haven't thought about this or have have notions of it, but trying to craft it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, On the fly it's probably. Yeah, there's there's definitely a better way to present that. But you and I have talked about a lot of things that if you kind of lean into that, like you say, you miss the exit and you're like, okay, I'm going to see what this is usually works out, and there's something that, whether it seems like coincidence or what that plays out in a positive way, Well, and I think you know for those listening or watching, you know I do a lot of self-reflection and just trying to, why are you doing this?
Speaker 3:Like what's behind it? You know, with getting records or you know, books at the thrift store, cassette tapes, whatever. I had this realization the other night when I went to and I'm wearing a pin for it, it was called Vinyl Tines Day, for Valentine's Day, there was a pop-up record shop, basically at the Sydney, in Benson, and I found out about it because I was at Keynesville Collectibles in Council Bluffs, which is like a place that has a gazillion records and tapes and all that stuff at the Sydney and Benson. And I found out about it because I was at Keynesville collectibles and council bluffs, which is like a place that has a gazillion records and tapes and all that stuff. And Tim the owner was like hey, there's a show, a pop-up show, at the Sydney. You should go, Um.
Speaker 3:And so I called my or texted my brother-in-law, who also has a record collection, and said hey. And said, hey, do you want to go with me? We don't do a lot together. Part of that's because of my schedule, you know, whatever. And he's like yeah, I'd love to go. So a couple things. We basically had like our little Palentine's Day, Like we went out to the record show, had a drink at the bar, we went and got a drink down in the old market, we went to Fizzy's and had a late meal.
Speaker 3:And I'm sitting there going this is great, like I can do it. You know I don't have a lot that I can bond with my brother-in-law about. You know there's there's certainly things, but you know this was great and I I sat there. I met the record show, you know, and I mean my brother-in-law, you know he's there looking for some records and immediately I see two guys that were at canesville collectibles earlier. I start chatting them up. I see eric, who I didn't know was selling records, but he's one of the estate sale vinyl guys that I've chatted up a few times. There's this other guy, this guy and I sit there and I go. Maybe I don't do this just for the records or some collection or whatever. I'm doing it for the people.
Speaker 3:It's a community I just want, I just like talking to people and connecting over a shared passion for our our uh self deprecating talk about our addiction to vinyl. Um uh, as well, as you know, wanting to just consume the art of others.
Speaker 2:I think that's a lot of why anybody does anything. To be honest, I think a lot of things that have a social dynamic you're like, oh, I'm into this thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm doing it because I like this, and sometimes that's true.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I feel like a lot of times it is more so you are just it's group dynamic that's it yeah, it's, yeah, it's like it's the.
Speaker 3:You're fulfilling a tribal instinct yeah, when I go, so and that you know when I go to, when I went to the record show, which I wasn't expecting, which is why I was so delightful, I'm like there's these people here that I know. Yeah, I know everybody when I go to archetype.
Speaker 3:You know we talk about third places. You know like I'll see josh there, I'll see alex there not you, alex, other alex. You know, obviously, the people that work there and it's just like a nice homey feel like these are acquaintances, people I know. Some of them are friends, and by friend I mean somebody to actually see outside of a third place. I go to a movie with them, go to dinner with them, whatever.
Speaker 3:Um, and now at the shop, when I go in there to bring my records in or just shop for records, I'm like hey, mike, what's up? And like, oh, mark, what's going on? I got some cassettes for you. I'm starting to get to know a few of the other people that work there, or the even the customers. One of the customers I chatted up at the use bins was at the record show at the Sydney and I chatted him as well. So, uh, that that desire for the human connection and opportunities to share in that passion, in the music that you're listening to to, maybe an act of kindness comes out of it, either on the receiving end or the giving end, and while there is some elements of obsession or fixation and maybe like moments of irresponsibility with spending money you shouldn't or whatever you know. It is nice to feel that at the core of it it's about community, it's about consuming the art of others and it's about adventure Like it's fun to go out and find something, a little piece of treasure. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, that gets you out in the world and feeling alive, instead of, for me, which has been my biggest struggle for the last 15 years sitting at a goddamn computer staring at the magic rectangle, all goddamn day, yeah, and again fulfilling to get work done to make a YouTube video, to write a screenplay.
Speaker 3:Sitting at a goddamn computer staring at the magic rectangle all goddamn day. Yeah, and again fulfilling to get work done to make a youtube video, to write a screenplay? No doubt about it. But man does it become? It got one dimensional for a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially when you throw in social media youtube, all that stuff.
Speaker 3:It's just blue screen. Yeah, magic rectangle.
Speaker 2:I think, one of the best things. It's funny, though, because social media has at its greatest potential, it is this amazing connecting force where you can connect all of these groups together and share common interests and communicate. But I had this experience the other day. I was just chatting with somebody and it was tech support for, like literally tech support for an application that I was playing around with, and I was like one of the beta um testers. People on the on the app and um had like a you know back and forth like thoughtful conversation with somebody about the product, like, oh hey, I think this. They're like, oh my gosh, like this is a great, this is like really interesting, like what do you think about this? It's like, oh well, this, this and this, and there was something really odd to you know realize. Oh man, this is what this is like the full potential of online communication yeah like, like you, can they're?
Speaker 2:I'm talking to a person that's in Australia right now, right, who I would have never met. Yeah, and they built this cool app. Or you know, their company built this cool app and you know it's a small team, everybody knows everybody in the team and and, yeah, now we're going back and forth about it and there's something really cool about that and it's just. But like, social media in its current form or in its current, in the mainstream current form, is just corrupted. It's lost. That that doesn't exist right now, not to say that somebody won't solve that and that comes back at some point. I think we are just in a you know we're in an evolution and eventually it's bound to.
Speaker 2:It's bound to kind of work its way back. Yep, because I think a lot of people are feeling what you know, I don't. I think that's a distinction worth making. The argument is it's not like. Like social media is such an easy bucket to throw it all into. Sure, social media is bad. You know, getting off of social media is just helping. It's well. It's not like. I guess social media, or like internet, like being able to interact with people on the internet, is not what needs to be taking the critique. That is an idea that still has a more perfect form and that probably is incredibly useful. But it's this idea of the current form or the current execution of social media is so driven by incentives or ego or comparison or these metrics that you're told that you need to care about.
Speaker 2:You know, you're told that you need to care about, and it corrupts the whole beautiful experience of just sitting down and having a conversation and enjoying it with a group of people. I think that's why group messages have become so popular over the last five to ten years.
Speaker 3:Most people are just like, yeah, group message is kind of like the experience of social media, without all of the BS. Well, and even beyond just social media being the big lure to the magic rectangle. For me, it's also just that the software tools are so powerful. You can create an entire album as a single musician using these digital instruments, whether it's GarageBand or Logic or Pro Tools or whatever drawing, painting. There's so much of a translation of something that's done in the real, tangible world that can be done. It's like that. Apple did one of their events and they showed all these amazing objects that help you make art, and a piano and paint and paintbrushes and all this stuff and they had it all sitting under a giant hydraulic press and they smash all these items. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then the iPad comes up, or it comes up and the ipad's there and they actually removed it from the replay of the of the youtube video because there was so much backlash about crushing all those things. To just like simplify it down to an ipad rectangle.
Speaker 3:Now I have an ipad and, yeah, it's, it's a is a magic rectangle. It does a lot of things. It's great, um, it's great, uh, you have one, um, you can read on all this stuff, uh, and, and I'm going hard on it right now, but, uh, I'm like I want to get up and go flip this record over. I want to, um, uh, I want to draw on a piece of paper or write my ideas on a notebook or use a typewriter.
Speaker 2:For what an iPad. You know, there's a lot of things that you can do on an iPad that you can't do with anything else. Sure, and it's the best at those things. Yeah. But it's not, you know, it's not going to replace everything Like there's. Yeah, like you said, sometimes it's a better experience to draw on a piece of paper. Sure, Write on a piece of paper, type out on a typewriter put on a record and listen to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, you know, there's just, there's so much something about the not only the inconvenience of some of this tangible, these tangible tools, but there's also something about just like physically touching something that isn't a flat piece of glass. Physically touching something that isn't a flat piece of glass, um and, and this, you know, the software, the magic software inside of it that you're manipulating, uh, to make something it's really funny.
Speaker 2:I think we're gonna. I obviously I don't know where the world is is going um, but I think an interesting direction would be we're we're at we're at the starting point of synthesis between digital and analog. Yes, and we've talked about this for three years, four years, but you know it's. We'll see how it plays out and it's interesting cause, yeah, you've got you know language, large language models and all of these interesting things Kids using digicams, you know.
Speaker 2:I'm interested to see, yeah, what is like and market dynamics are going to drive a lot of this, at least at the beginning. You know, if it's profitable it'll happen, and if it's not profitable it might not, but there could be an undercurrent that eventually kind of overtakes that. But I think the interesting point is it's so funny because we were listening to that little podcast clip when you walked in and we're talking about like yeah, this, like the synthesis happens when the real world starts to interact.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think we're going to have the. The most interesting timeline in my head is where we do start to. You know, we have respect for you hear it all the time like the atoms and the bits, but we start to have respect for them both. The physical world you know, we want to make that as enjoyable and interesting as possible. In the physical world, we want to make that as enjoyable and interesting as possible.
Speaker 2:And the digital world. How can we complement the physical world with the digital world? And then, likewise, how can we complement the digital world with the physical world? And there's a synthesis, whereas prior to the digital world, all we knew was the physical world. And then the digital world comes into view and suddenly our, our inclination as a, as a society, as a world, is this is so much better for everything. Everything needs to be digital, right. And then we kind of learn the lesson oh man, there's something missing here, like there's a lot, there's something that just feels off. And so, yeah, now we, we start to create, and that's going to be exciting if that actually comes to fruition, because I mean, there's so many things where, you know, I love, I love being able to sit at that desk with a typewriter, yeah, and listen to whatever on the radio or whatever, and then. But I have an apple tv on the.
Speaker 2:You know, there's just and have wi-fi and I can grab anything I want at any time and, like I can host things in the cloud, I can store things on my my own server. I can go on youtube and find anything, but yeah, like a we can make a podcast, a true synthesis. Yeah, it's I gotta tell you about my new typewriter, by the way.
Speaker 3:yeah, let's, let's, we're well over.
Speaker 2:I want to wrap up, but before we Maybe we'll wrap with the typewriter, just really quick, though Maybe not go down a super. Let's try not to go down a super rabbit hole, but the idea of optimism and pessimism. I just want to wrap that.
Speaker 3:Bring it back.
Speaker 2:Put a bow on that. Do you think that there's? Do you think you're just predestined or predisposed to having one or the other? Do you think, like, if you're a pessimistic person, are there things that you can do? Have you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's hard to say, because part of me goes. Oh, I was totally born this way, but then part of me goes. Oh, I was totally born this way, but then part of me goes. It's just the habit I formed yeah it's just repetition.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, you know, maybe there's sort of like um, you know there's sort of, uh, people's constitution. I don't, it's hard to say because you know I I bring up my wife again and you know I'll reference her. You know she had a um, she had all of these very smart little entrepreneurial endeavors that she took on. But it wasn't just entrepreneurial, it was also like mission-based, like I see a cool way to do something and connect with people and provide value and I really enjoy doing it. And like I'm not thinking about the commerce side. So so it was been a ton of time on this.
Speaker 3:But you know, back in like the night late nineties, she would have like a zine through AOL. This is like early internet, right? Um, that had like thousands of people on our mailing list. It was like a big deal and this was just like this thing that she built in her spare time, like you would build a YouTube channel or you would build a following on Substack or whatever.
Speaker 3:This is like before people were really thinking about having an audience on the internet and she did. And then, when she was living in Chicago, she would go to like TJ Maxx and Marshalls and be like, wow, these Express pants are like $10. And I can sell them on eBay for like $50. And she started like something that people are making entire livings around right now, not only just reselling stuff but then making content about their reseller life. You know, and she was doing that stuff early days, so there was this thing that I talked to her about, what to me like this bright spot in how she looked at the world and how she wanted to do things in unconventional ways Almost a little clairvoyant about.
Speaker 3:Well, both clairvoyant, but then also intrinsically motivated to do things that are both technical, creative and entrepreneurial, like a really great combination, and I don't know if it's. You know, this is back to Mad Men, what's expected of you and what you want to do. Well, I'm expected. I went to college, I've got a marketing degree, I've got to get a job, like like, society needs me to get a full-time job and extinguish all these wonderful, brilliant thoughts to do these things for myself. Um, that I do and I have fought my entire life, um, since graduating, especially grad school, to be able to do. And after having gotten a taste of that sort of freelancer lifestyle I mean, other than the short time I was employed here in Omaha, even though I felt like I was running my own business within the business I'm like hell-bent on keeping that little brightness of entrepreneurial, creative and technical going nonstop.
Speaker 3:Um, I hope that doesn't sound sort of like a? Um negative toward my wife, but it it's just like something, a force, I don't know what, like pessimism, I don't know what, reality pragmatism, like, um, I don't know what it was, but it sort of extinguished. Well, I want to say extinguished, but it's sort of like, put, put her focusing on what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:I feel is she, but is she like you know? Oh I, I like this, I like this. Maybe she did you feel like she's found something where she is more at peace or at ease, like maybe she, it's an easier her doing what she's decided to do is more enjoyable.
Speaker 2:It's like more of a enjoyable experience for her psychologically, or just yeah, I mean, I just think we all you know some of us, we all have different metrics that we're kind of trying to fulfill and for her, maybe that is different, just you know. Maybe that is different, just you know. Maybe that is she's optimizing for security, sure, but also maybe creative freedom within restraint, or something like that.
Speaker 3:I think if you cornered her and said if you could be doing anything right now, this doesn't take away from her, um, her focus on her work and her commitment to her job and all that stuff. I just think that she is someone who feels a strong connection to her vision for, you know, whatever idea comes up or you know a thing she wants to pursue, and and this is a maybe a conversation for another episode but, uh, sort of ownership of your time, that when you're in, when you're working, that you're doing exactly what you want to be doing to achieve work wise, what you want to do, and that you're the one who's making the decisions. And it's your vision, it's, you know, and even if there might be collaborators, ultimately you're the, you're the captain of the ship. Um, you know, I I think that's a strong force in her and, uh, and and and.
Speaker 3:Back to the conversations we had about indulgence and sacrifice. She was sacrificing things when I was just screwing around as far as career goes, to build things like that zine, and I think it's easy to be like, oh, who cares? She had some zine on aol, I mean, she told me how big it was and all the stuff she had to do to maintain it and I'm like that's a big deal for, like, yeah, a 17 year old or 18 year old. However, old.
Speaker 2:that was like a scarring experience too, you know. Yeah, maybe it's like, ah, that was a lot I don't want to. Could be, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I mean I sat there at Iowa state university on a Linux computer typing line code to build a geo cities website, all about like what was going on at college and it was like sort of like a Facebook page before that stuff existed, um, but it was. But she had hers, like you know, like she had a real um, not want to say a business, because it wasn't monetized. She could have monetized it, but I mean she had like tens of thousands of people subscribe to her zine. It's just nuts. Yeah, it's crazy to me, you know, like it's and it's not like it just sort of like happened like I think she knew that well, people will subscribe to this and I'm going to write about this or whatever the content was, and, uh, she was really passionate about it anyway.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it's just it's just interesting, do you think so? I guess, yeah. Final, final verdict Do you have any? Is it, is the? Is the answer? Get up, get a win early and, like you know, just try to look at things with a in the most positive light and kind of fake it until it becomes reality, or?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean, I definitely think, you know, deploying the optimism is a good thing, stacking those wins, having practices and discipline, um, with a sense of adventure and the unknown and spontaneity you know I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's especially for anybody trying to get better at a craft. It's how you have to. We just we live in in a society that puts way too much emphasis on this as a means to. You got to practice to get to the. You know it's practice. Yeah, you got to practice so you can perform in the game. You got to, and maybe that that's useful sometimes. But you practice because it's just it's what you need to do. It is a part of your. It's just a part of your experience. I think that's, you know, that's going to lead to a much healthier relationship with your work and a much more fulfilling relationship with with that work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's about balance You've got to have like. For me personally, I've got to have a balance of those adventurous, spontaneous, kind of off-the-wall things that I might do that are related to what I'm trying to do, whether it's digging out cassettes out of a basement of an antique store all day, which on the surface might make no sense to anybody, but at the same time to anybody but at the same time it's putting in the reps with getting certain amount of words on the page every day, or getting, you know, uh, three hours of editing done, or going on that walk, or doing that strength training, you know you, you have to find a balance of both. I think too much on one way, you lose out on this, too much on that, then things fall apart. You don't have a strategy, bills don't get paid, you're having a great time, but you're, you're, you're not balancing those things, um, effectively.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and it'd been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer.
