43. Artful Spaces: On Curation, Community, and The Creative Value of Physical Spaces in a Digital Age

Fair warning: this episode meanders a bit as we jump around – but that's just how it goes sometimes <3. We explore the relationship between creativity and physical spaces, examining how third places foster artistic inspiration and community. We discuss the importance of curated environments, and our shared vision for spaces that nurture authentic experiences. Our conversation touches on everything from film photography to bookstores, considering how these physical touchpoints connect to broader themes of artistic process, curation, and the human need for tangible creative engagement in an increasingly digital world. - Ai

 If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode. 

Links To Everything: 

Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT 

Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT 

Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT 

Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT 

Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG 

Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG 

Transcript

The Rollei 35

Speaker 1 0:01

And it had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer.

Speaker 2 0:12

Oh, here it is. I'm so surprised at the first one you found.

Speaker 3 0:19

Yeah, that's one little. Yeah, you have to like, I like that though it's kind of nice yeah.

Speaker 2 0:22

It's a pain to get it back in there, but I don't know though, it's kind of nice.

Speaker 3 0:24

Yeah, it's a pain to get it back in there, but I don't know if that's you can, it's okay it's probably. It's probably by design, right it's either by design or the. The cotton fiber of the wrist strap is just kind of crusted up a little bit, not from like something gross, like sweat or whatever but if you ever find another one, how much you pay for this? 60. Yeah, if you ever find another one.

Speaker 2 0:51

I've never seen seen one, so I I gave alex for those listening um the rolly 35 it's really funny too, because we were talking about this in a coffee shop, I know, yeah, you were talking about a month ago you were talking about the new yeah, yeah, and then that one showed up, so I I I didn't know how to work it.

Speaker 3 1:09

I've never had one before, I've never watched a video. I certainly knew what it was, and so, when I couldn't cock the shutter, I was like oh, is this thing broken? I didn't even know that the lens extended, um, so so matt's about three feet away from me, yeah, and I think you still need to do something else to be able to actuate the shutter, because you can't and I forgot I had to look it up on youtube, but I cannot remember what the next?

Speaker 3 1:37

oh, you have to. You have to rotate the lens into a certain position, um, not with this is a shutter speed, okay, yeah, and that's all fine, but there's a you have to like put the lens in a certain like, rotate the housing of the lens to get it into a certain setting so that the shutter will activate no, the actual.

Speaker 2 1:59

So it turns when you pull it out and then you can pop it. I don't know. I've got it. I think I've got it activated, let's do you? We'll find out.

Speaker 3 2:06

There's no film in it, of course. Um, yeah, you've got it and now you can yeah and then it is a single advance yep I just nailed that.

Speaker 2 2:15

By the way, that was a perfect photo. Pretty good, probably not. It was um, we're at three, five, which is a little bit forgiving, yeah, which that's probably nice, but we we're also at 30, and it was definitely just a little shaky. Not bright enough in here, yeah, oh, that's nice though.

Speaker 3 2:32

Yeah, and it's like in perfect condition. How is it? Yeah, I know it's a little tricky. There might be a button. You have to push that button, that front button.

Speaker 2 2:42

Yeah, I felt it click into place.

Speaker 3 2:44

Right, don't force that button, that front button. Yeah, I felt it click into place.

Speaker 2 2:46

Yeah right, don't force it. I forget, these things are pretty indestructible.

Speaker 3 2:49

I got to learn it. Fuck, I broke Matt's new roll. It should be easier than that. I think it just pops Is it because you have to set that.

Speaker 3 2:57

I think that button has something to do with it. Yeah, I had to look it up. I had to look it up because I was like I don't want to break this thing in the film roll, but yeah, so I went to an estate sale and they had a bunch of cameras. I just kind of passed on the other cameras, a couple of pentax spotmatics and, I think, an olympus slide cover, you know stylus, and even at half off. They were probably a little bit more than I wanted to pay. But this one was marked at 200 bucks. Half off was a hundred, which is totally worth it.

Speaker 3 3:33

But I didn't know how to work it. So when I brought it up to the people, I was like I don't know if this works like the shutter. I'm like to like how about 60? I was like, yeah, I'll take it for 60 bucks. So I went home, watched a youtube video and learned how to actually use it other than putting the lens back in. Um so uh, and the reason I brought it was because you and I had talked about the new one and you were interested in it.

Speaker 2 3:58

I've heard the new one is cool but not good.

Speaker 1 4:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:02

Internals, not Sony guts.

Speaker 3 4:06

Yeah, so I'm looking forward to when things warm up, there we go, oh, getting a uh fresh.

Speaker 2 4:15

So you must, you have to have the shutter cock to, I guess. So yeah, interesting yeah.

Speaker 1 4:21

And it all goes back in rock solid camera.

Speaker 3 4:24

Yeah, I'm super hyped to have it. It's definitely going to stay in the collection. I have a couple other. I have one other um olympus little range finder that I picked up recently for just next to nothing, but I'm like I just got to move this along. It's more one of those kind of like a like like a Canonette. You know, a Canon Canonette kind of vibe to it.

Speaker 3 4:46

Um, not like a, like a M3, m4 vibe. Uh, and it's, you know it's, it's, it's in like mint condition. It works, everything's good and this works. I figured out how to take the case off, how, to you know, I put the battery in. Um, the light meter works, miss. And uh, for those listening, alex threw a piece of paper for the trash can.

Speaker 1 5:09

You were trying to go for the bank.

Speaker 3 5:10

I thought it was the yoga mat for a second was a weird futuristic looking garbage. Can You're like you're never going to hit that buddy Did that thing. Yeah, it's getting getting close to a film photo Friday season and uh, and I haven't really gone out and done much photography all winter.

Speaker 2 5:28

We didn't really even, honestly, we didn't take advantage of last year. If we're being completely honest, I don't think we did, you did, I was out, but like our quote unquote film photo Friday, I feel like it's been.

Speaker 3 5:41

Yeah, I don't know if we were doing the podcast a little bit more on Fridays or if I you know it was just a little challenging with what I had going on with my kids or something I don't know. I want to drift from a few things this past year.

Speaker 2 5:56

It might've just been. Yeah, matt and his cause. That was like right in the middle of when you were figuring the space out and everything.

Speaker 3 6:11

Figuring the the middle of when you were figuring the space out and everything, figuring space out, yeah, and just kind of yeah, all those commercial pressures and the and sort of like, trying to define what my approach was going to be like. How am I going to incorporate commerce into this in a really meaningful way, where I don't feel like I'm just like the marketing arm for all these companies to sell hard drives and software?

Speaker 2 6:25

well, when was vidcon uh vid summit, vid summit.

Speaker 3 6:29

Sorry, no you're good because there is a vidcon as well. Vid summit that was, I think, in this coming september. I think it'll be like three years ago.

Speaker 2 6:39

So two and a half years now since I went to that. Well, so that would have been after film.

Speaker 3 6:44

Okay, that was because I remember distinctly discussing, when you got back from that, about yeah, the issues I had and some cringe that I felt while I was there, and that certainly helped move things along. But yeah, I mean a lot of stuff. But yeah, I mean a lot of stuff, everything from, uh, our conversations, reading, um, neil Postman's book technopoly, uh, um yeah, and just and just feeling that temptation to make a video, because if I talk about this product, I'll make a good commission. But but then saying, but I don't really, I don't really have anything to say. Up, you know, it's not coming from a place of curation or a place of. I really want to share this with the people that watch my videos. And oh, yeah, I happen to make a commission, but that's not my primary motivation.

Speaker 3 7:40

So, just trying to figure, figure all that out and we've talked about this in past episodes, so we't have to get too too into it but but, yeah, that was. But at the same time, though, in pulling away from the commerce side of it, you know, revenue has definitely taken a big hit and it's a problem. So I need to, I need to now that I feel like I have an idea. Okay, I know how to approach this to get the best of both worlds. Um, uh, you know I feel I feel better about starting, starting back up in a way where I'm outputting content that's different and better, but in a similar um frequency than what I had before.

Speaker 2 8:26

Got to got to pay the bills at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 8:29

Yeah, ultimately I can't, I can't escape that. So I have to also say, well, you could go get a job, or you do it, these other things to do it, and then preserve some kind of you know. You know, you know you're only making videos that come from a place of creativity and more authenticity, or whatever. But but even then, you know, before money even was a factor on the channel, I was making videos talking about products and software Cause I was just like, oh, you guys got to hear about this, or this is really cool, or this saved me a lot of time, or this is a great tool for post-production, or whatever. So I think it will be okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 9:14

And what I like is going back to the camera to wrap that up. That channel came from wanting to make content that had nothing to do with commerce, even though there's a slight element of it in that. Some of those cameras I sell in my eBay store and I can guide people to my eBay store to buy that camera from me. Um, but for some reason, like finding a cool camera at an estate sale and then making a video about it, we're going to come back to that, by the way, matt.

Speaker 2 9:44

I'm trying to convince Matt to open a store. It's our dream, it's my dream. There's something about it.

Speaker 3 9:51

I had a couple nights the last couple weeks where I've been going to this used record shop in Council Bluffs called Keynesville Collectibles. It's spurred these little fantasies of like. This place is packed full of like a million records. It's stacks and stacks of used physical media everywhere. I mean, it is intimidating and I had these moments where I fell asleep on the couch. I wake up at one, two, three in the morning. I try to go back to sleep in my bed but I'm like, oh, what if I did this? Or how could we get this? How could buy the building? What would we do to it? You know, what stuff would we put in there? How would we preserve the identity of that place and its legacy? But then still make it your own? Let's do it let's just

Speaker 2 10:35

jump in. Yeah, I, I think I saw a video too with um, uh, who he's, um. He owns like a bookstore in austin. Who? Who am I thinking? Oh it's austin, or is it it's? Maybe it's not austin um.

Speaker 3 10:59

Are you thinking about, um the photographer jason lee?

Speaker 2 11:02

no, he was in, oh god, um. He's like I don't want to, I, I don't, I don't know. I haven't really read. He's um. What is his name? Um, I can see his he's like he's involved with, like the like casey neistat, yeah the 368 stuff. I don't know if it was that, but he has a bookstore. Anyways, something popped up and he had a video with Matthew McConaughey or something. It was in the bookstore or something, but he just has a little bookstore.

Speaker 1 11:39

Yep.

Speaker 2 11:42

I'm going to find his name.

Speaker 3 11:48

You have. No, I am not.

Speaker 2 11:50

Yeah, it's not ringing a bell for me, anyways he's, he's like a very successful author, I think Um and um. Yeah, I think he just opened a bookstore I don't know if it's like his primary thing and I I sound super I'm, I'm out of my lane here Like I don't know what I'm talking about clearly, but I watched this video and he just has this little bookstore and there's, you know, people come in, he makes recommendations. Um cause I? I watched the the Matthew McConaughey um ryan holiday okay, I know the name yeah, I, he was.

Speaker 2 12:34

I think he did like I don't know. I think he's been on like podcasts and things like that before um, and then, yeah, I think he does like I don't know what the books are, maybe like productivity books or something yeah, like thought leadership productivity yeah I mean, yeah, I think he's like an advertising or something.

Speaker 2 12:54

Um, yeah, I mean yeah, I think he's like an advertising or something, um, but yeah, no, he just has a bookstore and shows people around it and I don't know if it's if that's like a side thing or like if that's like his main thing, and I'd love to learn more, but I need to actually learn more about it. I'm actually interested in a little more um, but no, I saw that and I thought about our like, oh, that's, that's what I. I would love to do is just run a bookstore, not even a bookstore, but just a store. You can have people, they come hang out, you can have events. I think we're just more attracted to the idea of a space.

Speaker 3 13:26

Yes, to make our own third space, to host a third space Having curation, curated offerings, whether that be books or media.

Speaker 2 13:37

You can kind of have people over and do movies or different things like that. Community projects, yeah.

Speaker 3 13:44

And then taking what we've learned from advertising, marketing and content creation, and all that stuff and going like how do you? Leverage it a little bit, but also how do you make it so that a business that might be difficult to start in 2025 and a you know the business I'm talking about exists in council blocks. There's a lot different than, like, the old market here in Omaha. But how do you, how do you push past those?

Speaker 2 14:08

Maybe a little like cashflow limited traditionally. Yeah, like a bookstore, right.

Speaker 3 14:12

Yeah, like it's it's a bit riskier. How do you?

Speaker 1 14:16

how do?

Speaker 3 14:16

you, how do you use social media and content creation as a way so that people driving along interstate 80 are like, oh, we got to check out that place, or I think I sent you this one.

Speaker 2 14:25

There was like a pbs video of a guy that owns a bookstore in england. Yeah, that I sent I guess I sent it to you and yeah, he was talking about his first couple of years in business and he's like, yeah, some days we get one customer right and that's terrifying, yes, and then some days we get slammed. Yeah, just a cute little shop and on the side of the road and this I think it's in the uk or maybe, like I don't know, scotland or something.

Speaker 2 14:53

But inside of a village and yeah, just great book story. As authors they come, do their thing. I love that idea. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. Ever since we talked about it the other day, it's just been like constant. Audrey and I had talked about it probably two years ago too, about maybe doing something in Dundee.

Speaker 3 15:12

I was talking to Tim, the guy who owns Keynesville collectibles. I've become friendly with him in my time I've spent there and and I'm like you know for someone to like today to buy this bill cause he owns the building, to buy the building, everything inside, like how much is it? He's like, without hesitation, million and a half yeah. And I'm like can't afford that, that I'm like we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to pick up some patreon.

Speaker 3 15:42

Well, yeah, I'm just like I don't know that it's worth that much too. I mean, I love you, but you've got.

Speaker 2 15:44

You've got a million records in here might have been his way of just saying like wouldn't sell it, I don't I didn't get that vibe.

Speaker 3 15:50

I think he definitely. I, I you know, and I I don't want to. I just get the vibe that I think he probably has a number that he wants to hit for to like officially retire. But then I think he thinks I he literally has over a million records in this place, like between 45, 70, 78s and 33s and all that.

Speaker 2 16:12

So it's like a dollar record record and then the building is half a mil.

Speaker 3 16:15

Yeah, exactly Like there's some basic math like that that gets that price. And I'm just like you know the building needs a lot of work. I mean you know there's leaky roof, there's probably lead paint in there. I mean there's all kinds of stuff. You'd probably spend half a million dollars just in gutting it and just re-drywalling it. Get the plumbing good, like new bathroom fixtures, you know just stuff like that, so it'd be a lot right. Um, you know, and and it's, it's a big space.

Speaker 3 16:45

I mean it's, it's two stories, uh, and there's a basement. You know that is mostly finished, but still basementy, um. So you're talking about a lot of real estate versus what you think you're talking about, which is something that's a little smaller, maybe even like this size, yeah, I mean obviously not this small.

Speaker 2 17:03

But yeah, yeah, I mean I'm, I'm and you know, I think you keep it small, you keep it curated. Yeah, because there is something nice about having these huge stores but they're like like a junk factory. Yeah, and I love the.

Speaker 1 17:17

I mean there's a couple of those in town and spend a lot of time.

Speaker 2 17:20

But yeah, I'm definitely thinking of something that's a little more just like keep it clean, keep it minimal, keep it flexible. You know, if we want to have a photography show, we can do that. If we want to have music, yeah, we can do that. If we want to have, you know, an author speak or a panel or, um, you know, poetry reading or show a film, yeah, just a flex space for kind of what we're interested in. And then, yeah, you sell. You know a couple of typewriters, a couple of typewriters, a couple of records that change out every you know two weeks, a couple of books, um, and yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 18:02

Yeah, and I like um make it comfortable.

Speaker 2 18:05

I mean, obviously you obviously run into the constraints of like, oh well, if you have food that opens up a whole new can of worms.

Speaker 3 18:11

But health department all this stuff, you have to have whole new can of worms.

Speaker 2 18:14

But health department, all this stuff you have to have, even if you just serve coffee, yeah, yeah, which stinks, but yeah, like you're towing the line between like a third space and like a bookstore, yeah, and like I don't know.

Speaker 3 18:25

Yeah, just a place where you can go and be open to new ideas, yeah, I think would be the and I think I always had this um ideas yeah, I think would be the, and I think I always had this um this, uh, like sort of what. What would make that work for me as someone who doesn't want to like have to be work in the shop all day long? You know like my uncle runs a small convenience store in a mechanic you know a gas station mechanic shop in the town I grew up and you know he's there 12, 13 hours a day to not only monitor people pumping their own gas, do light repairs on vehicles and sell stuff out of the convenience store.

Speaker 3 19:03

His, you know, my aunt and him both do that. But you know for me that's not something that would work with me. I would, in a dream scenario, would have like someone who's a like a passionate manager of the, of the space and the business aspects of it.

Speaker 2 19:20

To a certain extent, you know, you'd have an accountant, bookkeeper, whatever, but like isaiah at archetype, like he's not slinging coffee and like at the at the desk in the back crunching numbers, you almost like you go into it of, hey, we're gonna split this, like here's the initial investment that we want to try to make back and then open ownership, almost like, yeah, like you know, I don't have any trouble. I mean, obviously I don't think we'd be doing this to make money off of it per se, like, yes, we want it has to be self-sufficient. Sure, it's got to cover the rent, right? Um, you know it's got to cover your going out and picking and finding things and our time curating stuff and that, that, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 20:02

But yeah, I mean, you almost just split the ownership right, like, okay, like this person does these things, this person does these things, and then this person is like the in the shop and then if you need help, you know, beyond that, go hire a part-time employee or something. But yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 20:20

We're just discussing this live and then now it's out there unless we cut it out, but I think you know, having not done that before for me personally, I have a very, you know, uh, idealistic, rosy perception of what it would be like to run a brick and mortar location Like I. You know, see more of the fantasy aspect of it than sometimes the harsh reality, whether it's working with other business partners or having employees or, you know, trying to cover the pressure of, yeah, the pressure of maintaining the bills, getting you know inventory in all that stuff.

Speaker 3 20:55

And then just yeah, those times where it's not busy, some of my favorite shops in the old market that I go to during the week, I mean it's a ghost town in some of those places, and then other times it's completely slammed and obviously that's just the reality of retail in essence. But I will say that at a coffee shop there's certainly times where it's slow, but I'd never see them empty yeah and then when it's slammed it is slammed yeah um, especially archetype.

Speaker 3 21:26

Yeah gosh, it's like always busy, bad seed I don't know if you've been over there recently, but they, they there is bad seed bad seeds like 24th and Farnham or Harney, I think Um, but they. There used to be a bike shop next door and they bought that space and then the weird looking building?

Speaker 2 21:46

I think so, like a block away from the high school. No that's astute coffee.

Speaker 3 21:52

Oh, bad seeds, bad seeds. More of that mid, that no man's land between Midtown or between downtown and Midtown Crossing, huh, anyway, it doesn't matter where, but they have just like a totally different vibe to their space from Archetype, and my wife and I went there for coffee one Sunday morning and it was just a great experience. They have lots of greenery and plants. It's female-owned, oh.

Speaker 2 22:17

I know Bad Seed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice, yeah, yeah, really cool space. There's Zen.

Speaker 3 22:24

Coffee, which is next to Voodoo Taco, which is a whole different thing. But Bad Seed, yeah long it used to be really narrow.

Speaker 2 22:30

It used to be like 13th too.

Speaker 1 22:41

It's just kind of like college I get that all the time.

Speaker 3 22:42

College vibe yeah, that's when I'm like I just want to like a nice rich coffee that's cheap, yep, or inexpensive, yeah, not cheap. Cheap sounds negative. 13th is nice though. Yeah, yeah, we got some good stuff, good, good stuff yeah the good shops around town and I've you know we talked about third places on on the show quite a bit I'm almost like, do you?

Speaker 2 22:56

there's no place to open up a coffee shop. Yeah, do you? You almost I wonder what is the what's next to bad seat these days?

Speaker 3 23:06

well, they moved into that bike shop, but then on the other side I'm not sure what's there, because they used to be yeah, but then on the other side, just up the way from them.

Speaker 2 23:13

most of those buildings are vacant, so I think the building on the corner was vacant for a while. See, I'm almost wondering yeah, do you partner with something like that?

Speaker 3 23:23

Right.

Speaker 2 23:24

You tear the wall down, you make an agreement like, hey, we're going to have, it's a store, right, but you know, we're just going to have some comfortable like couches and seating and we're going to do gallery showings and yada yada, yada.

Speaker 2 23:36

That's right, the gallery would be awesome, and then you just open it up and it's like right, there is the coffee shop that is also open during the day. Yeah, maybe you get it to where, like hey, you get a relationship to where I don't know there's something yeah, they sell records in bad seed.

Speaker 3 23:52

My buddy josh has two record. Uh bins, uh like, like, like bigger pieces of furniture with you know, hundreds of records in each of them, and he partnered with them to sell records in their shop and so you'd essentially be doing that, but just next door, yeah and be a little bit bigger footprint or more inventory that you're actually, you know, managing and all that yeah there's something there.

Speaker 3 24:12

There's something there, I think. I think, too, we're also seeing a sort of a rebound to people going to physical locations to buy stuff, whether it's a small independent bookstore, um merchandise, uh, at a coffee shop and I don't mean merchandise in a a sort of cringy way, but just you know. Um, some of them have like a small selection of curated items I think you have to curate and then teach, though. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 24:36

Because I think we see, we've seen this. I mean, how many bookstores like shitty bookstores have opened up, or like there was one in Dundee? Sorry, I hit the mic.

Speaker 1 24:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:44

And yeah, I mean again yeah, I went in there one time and it was fine. Yeah, but yeah, but you know, it's nothing, there's something missing for you.

Speaker 1 24:57

yeah, I mean, it was just it was fine and the books were a little expensive.

Speaker 2 24:59

Yeah, you were used all, all new, but the type of new where it's usually like shopping in a barnes and noble. Yeah, it's like oh man, this book is seven dollars, brand new, prime, one day, shipping, right, right, and I understand, oh well, you're not supporting local at that point. It's like yeah. I get it, but at the same time I go through so many books. I'm not going to spend $10 more on every book because and I mean, I spend probably $50 a week at Jackson.

Speaker 3 25:29

Street. Jackson Street's a used bookstore in the old market.

Speaker 2 25:34

Got this Jerry Schts show and tell.

Speaker 3 25:36

Found this last week.

Speaker 2 25:38

I'm super excited about this. This is one of my favorite filmmakers one of my favorite filmmakers um jerry shattsbury. So he did um portrait of a downfall child man. You know um scarecrow and uh panic at needle park. So scarecrow panic at needle park are two of al pacino's yeah that's right.

Speaker 3 25:59

First films and then gene hackman.

Speaker 2 26:01

Rest in peace. Yeah, um gene hackman and al pacino and scarecrow. It's one of my favorite, audrey, and I watched it was the first time she'd seen it yeah, the other night.

Speaker 3 26:09

I've never seen it. I don't know that I've ever seen an image from that movie.

Speaker 2 26:12

Oh it's unbelievable, you unbelievable. I think it's on TCM right now. If you want to pop that on, put it on right now. No.

Speaker 1 26:19

But yeah, Jerry.

Speaker 2 26:20

Schatzberg, great film director, but also a wonderful photographer. Oh cool, yeah, so we can flip through that or not. But yeah, this was at Jackson Street, nice snack.

Speaker 3 26:32

It's a wonderful bookstore. Was it on display or was it just on the shelves? Tucked away in the photography section Wow, yeah, yeah, good snag dude.

Speaker 2 26:42

So we go. I mean, it's, it's pretty much our routine.

Speaker 3 26:45

Yeah, yeah, we'll go through there, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 26:48

Yeah, and Matt runs into us occasionally.

Barnes & Noble Renaissance

Speaker 3 26:50

We just let it serendipitous, and I will sometimes, just for a little extra scratch at an estate sale where I yeah cool where I strike out on cameras or um records. I'll pick up books and take them to jackson street and just get a quick flip on some, on some used books he's got some beautiful faye dunaway photos in here too.

Speaker 2 27:12

Yeah, oh my gosh yeah.

Speaker 3 27:16

And Faye's a photographer too right.

Speaker 2 27:18

Fantastic. I haven't seen any of her work. I wouldn't put it past, she's wonderful.

Speaker 3 27:26

I might be confusing Faye with yeah, this is cool though. I forget the actress's name. Yeah, it's great, I mean beautiful. Yeah, that's great, I mean beautiful. Yeah, you know, there's there's, there's like a like, a sort of like a sub genre, and the photography world of so happy to find this actors and directors that like are really passionate photographers. Jeff bridges is a big one. Um God, I'm blankinking on that actress. It's not Faye Dunaway, it's. We're both not remembering names today. Very well, anyway.

Speaker 2 28:04

What are you going to do?

Speaker 3 28:06

I think just my files are so overwhelmed I can't access. I can't access the information Like I used to.

Speaker 2 28:15

I think, though, what's interesting. Jackson Street is always interesting to me, because I can never, I can't ever get it.

Speaker 3 28:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:25

There's always something new.

Speaker 3 28:27

Oh yeah, gosh, yeah, you can never archive it, no.

Speaker 2 28:30

So I'll go and I'll look at the same books over and over, but you find something new, because and so that is on the massive like on the, not Matt like, what is that? That's the um, just quantity. I don't think we could do that.

Speaker 1 28:46

No there's no I don't think like we.

Speaker 2 28:48

Just I don't. I don't think that'd be interesting to us.

Speaker 3 28:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:51

Um to us, yeah, um, but then it's funny because the environment is somebody. I was walking through jackson street last saturday and somebody said, um, like we're just doxing our routines too. Yeah, somebody was like they need some music playing here and I was like. I was like, no, they don't yeah, it's perfect.

Speaker 2 29:10

Like they don't need anything, like you can bring the music yourself but I think it's interesting because, yeah, like they tried a lot of these small bookstores and it was over curated getting back to my original point and the prices were not crazy different the books weren't. You know, there was no excitement about any of the books or the ideas yeah there's no like hey, this is.

Speaker 2 29:34

It was more just like oh, here's a blurb from like the new york times or something like somebody. I don't care about their opinion on anything like book wise it's like here's a blurb about. It's like no, you're like, I want to hear your perspective. Right, like, if I want to, the New York times is perspective on a book. I'll go read it.

Speaker 1 29:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:56

I can get it through them. Like I don't want you passing that onto me in a game of like telephone. Like I want your and Jackson street. They have that table, yes, and they put out different books every week, that's right, that big table. Yep, and that's I. Go there every week just to look and see what's on the table. That's cool to me yeah. Like and then, yeah, you get sucked into the rest, but yeah, no, they keep it fresh every week. They do.

Speaker 3 30:22

There's something new in there, especially the window displays. Window displays, yeah, look at the window displays.

Speaker 2 30:28

It's little things like that and it's theirs, it's their perspective. Yes, and you can never quite Curated, it's very curated and it's not yeah, it's not just like oh, we read this, this is a good book, it's good and here it is. I think that's the key Because, yeah, you over curate and then you price out your market Like Amazon is a competitor for a reason, right, but we went to a I'll get off the store thing here in a second but Audrey and I spent like four hours a couple of weekends ago.

Speaker 3 31:07

The weather's been bad here, so it's like this is perfect for hanging we went to the barns and noble oh yeah, out by oakview yeah great, the only one left in the omaha metro so I I spent my entire childhood in barns and noble.

Speaker 2 31:22

Um, it was like barns and noble. I mean, you walk in though and it's the same. Yeah, it's a time capsule usually it's the same yeah, not in a bad way, though no no I don't mean that negative.

Speaker 3 31:33

We went to the lineup in sioux city last year on our way back from okoboji and we were like wow I'm kind of bullish on barnes and noble well, there's a really good apparently they're opening a new one in omaha too.

Speaker 3 31:45

Well, there's a really good apparently they're opening a new one in Omaha too. Well, there's a couple of good news segments and it was either 60 minutes or whatever, and I'll see if I can find it and put the link in the show notes. But there, there, you know where they talk to the new CEO of Barnes and Noble and how Barnes and Noble is like surging right now because they completely threw out their old business model with like, just like gazillions of books, but they went to curation and they went into like how do we be a big brick and mortar bookstore but with a small bookstore feel? And they went hard on that, all in on it. And I think when you sent me that video, that video that irritated me from Starbucks, starbucks coffee company, I think they're doing what they're trying to do it. Yeah, they're trying to take that play. You know, starbucks, the Starbucks coffee company.

Speaker 2 32:25

I think they're doing what Barney Noble they're trying to do it.

Speaker 3 32:26

yeah, they're trying to take that playbook.

Speaker 2 32:27

You know Starbucks, despite what Matt says, because Matt's a huge fan of Starbucks. But if you guys put comfortable couches in your locations again and give me some Seattle 90s vibes, I will, I'm all in on, I'll be back in immediately. Really, Give me. You know the opening scene in so I Married an Axe Murderer.

Speaker 3 32:45

Yes, I ordered a large coffee, oh, oh.

Speaker 2 32:51

I just watched all of like the Linda Richmond reruns Coffee talk, coffee talk. Welcome to coffee talk.

Speaker 3 32:57

I still quote that, like, donnie will have something on her face.

Speaker 2 33:02

You got some schmeisel on you. Oh, I'll be like yeah, whenever I'm, I'll be like I'm a little bit clamped.

Speaker 3 33:06

Talk amongst yourselves Is this podcast our version of coffee.

Speaker 2 33:09

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I just finished my coffee.

Speaker 3 33:14

A hundred percent. The Madonna guest. Oh my God, I'm doing the best.

Speaker 2 33:21

Yeah, oh, it was the. She comes around the back.

Speaker 2 33:26

She's like like I don't care for that madonna, just so great wonderful I'm gonna I'll do the coffee talk intro and so the studio sessions intro on this one. So 90s night, yeah, so so if so, books felt like not even I just I want, I miss being able to go and like sit in a coffee shop and like, just not in a chair though, like a, like a wooden, like a couch, like yeah just like something comfortable, kind of feeling like, versus a chair, that's so the panera, the panera, uh, close by here, used to have chairs and I'd go sit in the chair.

Speaker 2 33:55

It was a chair by a window, yeah, leather chair by a window, yeah. And I'd go sit and read every morning. I did this for a year and a half. Every morning I'd go read for an hour in the Panera.

Speaker 3 34:04

Yeah, and you know some-. Yeah, you suggested coffee one time at the Panera for us to meet.

Speaker 2 34:08

Yeah, we sat in those chairs and I was like Panera.

Speaker 3 34:11

Yeah, like I was not-. Yeah, you know, I was Mr Snooty, archetype guy.

Speaker 2 34:22

Like and no, but they got decent coffee. Maybe I was just surprised that you liked Panera. And they had those two chairs by the window and they took the chairs away.

Speaker 3 34:31

They did.

Speaker 2 34:32

And guess where I haven't been to sit? They took the two chairs away.

Speaker 3 34:35

They took the chairs away. I wish you would make a video on that. Like that's something that would be interesting, Like Alex talking about the two chairs at Panera.

Speaker 2 34:48

I love how far away we are. We need to somehow tie this back in. We have a podcast that says art and the creative process. We're talking about Panera's chairs, but there's something. So getting back to kind of where you were going.

Speaker 3 35:04

I'm trying to get you to make art about it.

Speaker 2 35:06

I'll get you back to the of where you were going. I'm trying to get you to make art about it, but I'll get you back to the. You were talking about Starbucks and I think Starbucks does have an opportunity, because I think 90s coffee shop vibes is something that could come back. Have you gone to Sozo?

Speaker 3 35:19

Coffeehouse. That is 90s big time. Where's Sozo Sozo's by the Old Market, Old Market adjacent. It's like totally under the radar. I didn't even know it existed oh, it's underneath, it's the under.

Speaker 2 35:30

Oh I do, but it is like it's got like the pool.

Speaker 3 35:33

Yeah, central perk friends, big puffy chairs. From what I remember, we'll have to go to soho then check it out, sozo, so yes, because that's what.

Speaker 2 35:42

That's what I thought it was too soho at first.

Speaker 3 35:44

So no, it's sozo s-o-z-o and I haven't been back.

Speaker 2 35:48

I always thought that place had like weird reputation or something. I don't know why it is an outlier.

Speaker 3 35:52

But yeah, maybe, maybe it's, the move could be um, but but yeah, I don't want to spend a bunch of time breaking down the whole star let's just wrap up the starbucks, barnes and noble thing though, because yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starbucks Rebranding Discussion

Speaker 3 36:04

So for you and, I think, us, when we went to Starbucks and stopped in, it was a lot of nostalgia. But I think we also noticed like, oh, the selection here is, you know, it's not just all these tables full of bargain books, like the old Barnes and Noble used to be just mountains of books that they overordered. They would put stickers on them, their reduced price, all that stuff. It was just like there were a gazillion different sections of different subjects and medical books and law books and these big, huge reference books.

Speaker 2 36:32

I think they've- the dummies for dummies books.

Speaker 3 36:34

Yeah, they've removed all that stuff and, while still maintaining a large footprint as far as square footage goes, they've dialed in and focused the selections that they make, and they have employees there that are, like, smart about what the books are.

Speaker 2 36:49

They have sections that they curate themselves, like and it was very, it was very, just like you and I talk about this. There's it's so easy, like so many people kind of manage things and see the world through these like very hyper localized, like echo chambers yeah, in 2025? Yeah, and you know we talk about like what makes youtube great, right, it's. It's just everything like you're gonna get whatever you're interested in and you can find it on there like old stuff, stuff.

Speaker 2 37:19

Yeah, I mean yeah completely niche, completely not niche like you're gonna get, you're gonna find whatever. And that's the key for a lot and barnes and noble great like. Yeah, I do think there is a market, though, for just like a coffee shop and a like a bookstore and, you know, maybe barnes and noble's coming in to fill that and and I haven't been out there, we should, we should, uh, go out there.

Speaker 2 37:41

We should do a podcast take the kids there, man, sometime they I think your kids. They thought they loved episode at the Barnes Noble sometime.

Speaker 3 37:44

Take the kids there, man, I think your kids would just. They loved it at the Barnes Noble in Sioux City. They enjoyed it. They thoroughly enjoyed it, yeah.

Speaker 2 37:49

I mean it was and part of this too. I'm like how much of this is just nostalgia.

Speaker 3 37:54

Right Because.

Speaker 2 37:55

I grew up in these bookstores and I go back and I'm like this feels the same.

Speaker 3 38:07

This is amazing. You say that about that haven't lost their way, but if they can make it so that when you actually do look beyond that layer of the experience and go wait a second, there's actually good stuff. I think I bought a book, yeah, yeah. And so when we talk about, well, this podcast is about, you know, art and the creative life. What does this have to do with barnes and noble? I sit there and go, I like when I see stuff like that out in the world, because I try to dissect the creative intentions of you know, a big, what, what used to be a huge corporation and now a little bit smaller but still doing well, rebounding and sort of re-branding themselves and getting back to the understanding, the basics of how to connect with an audience it's kind of what we talked about too on those, on some of those earlier episodes we did where we discussed Patagonia.

Speaker 3 38:47

Yeah Right, just like a self contained business.

Speaker 2 38:50

Mission based. Don't like if, if I I mean I will give the CEO, I will now give the CEO of Barnes and Noble some advice. No, but I mean if, if I was giving input just from like my perspective. Giving input just from like my perspective, focus on the energy, right, focus on the energy, like what is what is the point of a barnes and noble? It's the energy and the ideas. Right, you have ideas. You have the kids playland. It's amazing. It's just a place where imagination can be free. You have all of these ideas, um, from just all across the spectrum. Yeah, there's no, just anything that you can imagine. Put it in there. Obviously, don't go so overboard with the manuals and the doctor how to code Linux in 2004 or something. I think we all know that kind of a thing and then also add areas to hang out and sit. Can we get some couches in these places? Right, like I want to.

Speaker 3 39:49

Just go and you'll be able to read the books for free yeah, but this is what I mean.

Speaker 2 39:53

Like this is what it's like. This is what some like, that's what you want.

Speaker 3 39:56

Like this is what some ceos go. No, we need turnover. We don't want like people just need to go. I'm likely.

Speaker 2 40:01

I'm likely to buy a like. You know, I'm likely to buy a book if I read through it. You want to sell me a book? Here's what you do. You get me sitting down in the store and reading through the book and finding an idea that's so cool that I'm taking a picture of it or I want to highlight just because it's like. And then I'm like is it worth the extra $5 I'll spend on this, instead of going to Amazon and waiting for a day and losing this train of thought to just be able to underline this right now? Probably so. Then I underlined it and I bought a book. That's right. And then maybe you sit down, have a cup of coffee, whatever. I think that there's focus on the energy. Don't try to be the biggest. You're not going to compete with Amazon.

Speaker 3 40:45

Create an experience. It's over amazon won that battle yeah, if you do something fast and cheap amazon, amazon's it.

Speaker 2 40:52

Don't try to win that battle. You already almost went out of business because you try to compete with amazon, but but for the people that want an experience.

Speaker 3 41:00

They want to go someplace and spend part of an afternoon and discover something new and all that?

Speaker 2 41:04

three hours in there, man.

Speaker 3 41:05

Three hours in there, man three hours and imagine if they had couches you might look up and go. We've been here for six hours, babe.

Speaker 2 41:10

Yeah, like well and that was the thing too, like we were prepared to kind of hang out. Sure, they just didn't have any place for us to hang out, it was go sit in the cafe at one of our tables, yeah, which we thought about, but we're like there's just no place to read. There's these like uncomfortable little chairs so this is still connected.

Speaker 3 41:32

But we, you know, mentioned barnes and noble and starbucks sort of in the same situation. Right, I brought up starbucks as in, like barnes and noble, as kind of got back to basics, understood what we hope, why people right, why people want to go there and what you're talking about, all that stuff. And when you showed me that Starbucks ad, which I'll link in the show notes, um, I'm like, and so why does this make me?

Speaker 2 41:56

angry. To give people context, starbucks has a new CEO. Yeah, starbucks has been losing. Apparently, they've been losing quite a bit of revenue over the last couple of years, and this you know. You start looking around, it's well, there's a hundred thousand drink options and the baristas are getting overcrowded with mobile orders and people are having terrible in-store experiences. So the new CEO.

Speaker 2 42:17

The new CEO was like we got to cut out the variety, we got to do what we do well and we got to get back to the in-store experiences. The focus that was. Those were, like the, the guiding principles that he set when he, when he came and he's the same one that I think he was chipotle ceo or something, and chipotle is great yes, I like chipotle yep, so I'm following it.

Speaker 2 42:38

You know, loosely, I don't, I don't care no, I know what it's, but I I'm loosely following it because I I feel this thing like if Starbucks could get back to what it was good at. You know, I think there's a absolutely a place in the market right now for a cool coffee shop. I mean, look, I'm a big local coffee shop guy. Anyways, I probably am not going to be a patron, you know, being a constant patron of starbucks but I do think it's interesting because if they could, if they could do it and show that that works, yeah we could see an entire shift towards more of that third place attitude, whereas 15, for the past 15 years 20 years, I think people thought, oh, third place is dead, it's all digital now.

Speaker 3 43:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 43:28

So, Starbucks is a major signal, I think, if they, if they signal you know we're going to do couches and come hang out in our restaurant, buy a drink and have a good time and make friends, and that's a big signal to everybody and I think my reaction to the two you know I'm sitting there going why am I like?

Speaker 3 43:50

do I have a favorable feeling towards barnes and noble, but more of a negative one towards starbucks? And I feel like, with barnes and noble, you know and this is my opinion, I don't even know if I'm right um, as far as uh, you know how things went, uh, in 2008 when the great recessioncession kicked in. But I sort of see Barnes Noble as a victim of a couple of things maybe partially the Great Recession, people cutting back on spending, another element being, of course, you know, us spending more time in digital spaces on our devices, et cetera. You know the iPad, all that stuff pushing things more towards digital, but then also Amazon being a quick and easy way to get inexpensive books.

Speaker 3 44:30

Maybe the cost of gas driving to a Barnes and Noble, all that stuff sort of made them sort of a victim of that perfect storm of situations that they, unfortunately for them, didn't do a terrific job of seeing it coming. They've survived, but how many Barnes Nobles got turned into a Planet Fitness across the country With Starbucks? I don't have that sympathy. I don't have that. They, to me, are part of the problem. I'm not saying that that is true factually. That is just how I feel when.

Speaker 1 45:03

I think of Starbucks.

Speaker 3 45:05

Whereas Barnes, noble, I'm like, oh, I feel's just how I feel, no for sure, starbucks. Whereas barnes, and noble, I'm like, oh, like I feel for you. I feel bad for you, whereas I was like I don't feel bad for you, like you guys and this and that and like there's there's just a barnes and noble was like coming in and they were killing local bookshops absolutely for a while, right?

Speaker 2 45:18

so I do think part of it is is branding, sure, but yeah and I agree with you on that.

Speaker 3 45:24

Like they, they you know there's a whole movie about it, right, you've got mail is like you know, it's my. I was going to say like what's what's blowing up over there? A hundred percent. And I think at that time, you know, my awareness was low so I didn't. I didn't you know?

Speaker 3 45:39

I didn't read about that in the news even though it was happening, like it wasn't emotional part of my emotional experience of Barnes and Noble I had a positive one because I never went to mom and pop bookshops as a 14 year old and as Barnes and Noble was surging when I was in high school and college, it you know it was a cool place to go to get coffee and check out books and sometimes get you know discount books or gifts for family members for Christmas or whatever. So, um, get you know discount books or gifts for family members for christmas, or whatever. So, um, you know so, so I have a favorable feeling toward them.

Speaker 2 46:11

Well and like I think for a lot of and that's kind of part of why I feel like starbucks is a major signal, because we take it for granted that like we live in a major metropolitan, cities.

Speaker 1 46:22

Essentially, there's a lot of coffee shops, there's a lot of options, there's a lot of cool little off the beaten path type things like.

Speaker 2 46:28

In my college town there were a couple of coffee shops and we went to them.

The Value of Third Places

Speaker 2 46:31

Yeah, but there's also a starbucks right sometimes there's only a starbucks, yeah, there's only like the panera or whatever. Uh it for vast, you know, swatches of the country. I think that's the case. So if're signaling, if they're sending that signal, then you're you're signaling to a much broader audience like, hey, this is, this is back in fashion, or, you know, back in fashion, we're talking about hanging out in public, but I think that's a good, that's a good sign, um that that it's a good cultural signal that, hey, you is a good thing to spend time in the place.

Speaker 3 47:14

And I'll be curious. My biggest thing with what I would hope to see from Starbucks and them doing this is obviously trimming down the menu, creating a better in-store experience.

Speaker 2 47:24

It's almost a little bit Steve Jobs. They got a little ahead of themselves. They're just waiting Well.

Speaker 3 47:28

McDonald's did that.

Speaker 2 47:29

Comes back in. We got to have pizza and burritos and all this stuff and it's like, just I'm not comparing the CEO of Starbucks to see, and it's a stupid comparison anyways, but I'm just saying like, yeah, for some reason I associate, cut the fat to him. I think he's the best case study of cut the fat.

Speaker 3 47:48

It's like we serve hot coffee and then let's start doing iced coffee. People are really responding to that. Let's go hard on that, okay, well, now people want iced fruit drinks and teas and stuff. Let's go on that. They just keep expanding.

Speaker 2 48:00

Can I have coffee in my tea? Sure, why not? Whatever.

Speaker 3 48:03

And then food and all that stuff, so it just ends up they just shoot themselves in the foot by trying to get more and more market share from other businesses.

Speaker 2 48:17

Again too, they're-.

Speaker 3 48:17

They want to take a bite out of McDonald's breakfast traffic, so they start making breakfast food. Mcdonald's wanted to take a bite out of Starbucks stuff, so they double down on their coffee and coffee offerings. So it's just all that.

Speaker 2 48:28

It's so unfortunate too, because you'll never like Starbucks is like they're caught up in that right.

Speaker 1 48:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 48:36

And it is. It's so funny too because it ties into what we talked about before the podcast. It's like Apple comes in, they cut the fat and now you're over. You're. We talked just before the thing. Maybe they're kind of back to that state.

Speaker 1 48:48

Yeah, when all you're trying when?

Speaker 2 48:50

you're trying to maximize your profit, yeah, and increase it every single year. Eventually you're gonna reach a point where you, it's just okay, got to cut it out again that's right.

Speaker 1 48:59

Go back to basics again.

Speaker 2 49:00

And starbucks is, you know, doing that. Barnes and noble, maybe, is on the other end of that. But if Barnes Noble starts doing really well, they're like oh, we can keep growing, oh, we can get even bigger, oh, we're going to open new locations, and then are they going to end up right back.

Speaker 3 49:14

Yeah, like lessons, not learned Well and not to make this whole episode about sort of like older brands that are trying to reinvent themselves and grow in a very competitive and difficult climate. But we talked about an episode where Chili's is completely overhauling their menu.

Speaker 2 49:32

We're talking about these awful chains too. Well, yeah, chili's and Barnes Noble. I've got all kinds of nostalgia for Chili's, just odd brands.

Speaker 3 49:39

That was a big deal for my parents to come visit me in college and take us out to. Chili's. It was like whoa, we're going to a nice restaurant.

Speaker 2 49:46

When I was a kid, red Lobster was like the nice, oh my God yeah.

Speaker 3 49:49

Your mind is blown, but you know so. So with Starbucks, my concern is that let's make a touchy, feely little hype piece with the ACDC and like the cool cinematography and the retro digicam flash look and some old yeah, the video was pretty bland, to be honest, but yeah, yeah and I sit there and I go okay, you're gonna like put forth these values in this video that you know, like you're a coffee company and and you're going to starbucks coffee company.

Speaker 3 50:16

Yeah, the baristas are, you know, are professionals and they care about the product and they're going to make you the best cup of coffee, whatever I'm like, but behind all, you're coming up with coffee machines and processes at your restaurants to allow them to serve coffee faster and more efficiently. Well, how do you find the balance between fast and efficient, but still something of quality? And that mirrors what I was saying earlier, uh, before we started recording about, I want to make content consistently on my channel, but I don't want to just crank out tutorial videos that are just soulless and boring and and flat.

Speaker 2 50:56

I do give Starbucks a little bit of credit on that, though they I you know I don't think they're completely, just, you know, factory printed Like sure. I think they they're baristas that are really good at what they do that work for I don't know. I'm not, I'm not trying to defend star, but I don't even know what I'm like. I could care less to me to me.

Speaker 3 51:16

I think they would go I'm not for or against.

Speaker 2 51:18

It is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 51:19

If the customers could rate their coffee and a barista was consistently getting the top marks for how well they made a cappuccino and a latte and all that stuff and the customers were like, oh, it's beautiful. But then they saw, but it's taking you three times as long to do it as Sarah, who is slinging coffees that are getting average reviews, but she's selling way more of them. I think Starbucks would go. We need more Sarahs, sorry, not more you.

Speaker 2 51:46

yeah, it's nice to have the high reviews for your well-made coffee drinks, but ultimately, they're playing the game of you buy a coffee in des moines, you buy a coffee in palm beach. It tastes the same.

Speaker 3 51:57

Yeah, that's the game that they play, sure, and you know you're limited immediately when you start playing that game yeah, so then that's what kills me is like these big like Starbucks like makes a video where there's like a vibe of it being like a small town not small town but small mom and pop, like handcrafted, like an archetype, you know, like vibe, but I just like you're not. This is not what you are.

Speaker 2 52:24

Well, what do you think of the signaling aspect, though Signaling like?

Speaker 3 52:28

To me it's I mean you're definitely.

Speaker 2 52:30

You know, there is a wave happening right now about third places. Absolutely, I hope it's more than a wave, because I think it's just an actual cultural antidote that is needed.

Speaker 3 52:41

Yeah, it's necessary. We need to learn how to be humans again.

Speaker 2 52:47

life in the magic rectangle was a bubble, and that bubble is burst yeah, and we're not going back and I we might go back. If anything, it probably wouldn't be a magic rectangle.

Speaker 3 52:54

It'd be like a magic. Yeah, you know whatever I mean.

Speaker 2 52:57

Yeah, I can't, you know, I can't say one way, but I do think for now. Yeah, I think there's a generation of people that and by generation I don't mean like an age group, I mean just there's a generation of people that, and by generation I don't mean like an age group, I mean just there's a lot of people that are just like this shit sucks.

Speaker 3 53:10

Yeah, I want to use my hands.

Speaker 2 53:12

Like I don't enjoy this.

Speaker 3 53:14

This is not fun, and my channel and what I've been doing is a perfect example of that I am. I mean, I'm just the video I'm working on right now just about I don't want to look back on my life and have sat at a computer for 10 hours a day for five, six days a week before we're 56.

Speaker 2 53:31

We'll wrap, yeah, but like what are your thoughts on? Like the state of that trend?

Speaker 1 53:36

Like the third, like like you introduced the concept to me formally, obviously everybody knows what it is, but you were the first one to use the buzzword for it, and then I started seeing it.

Speaker 2 53:47

This was a year and a half ago. It's popped up more and more and more. Matt's obviously in the know.

Speaker 3 53:54

I'm trying to stay on trend here.

Speaker 2 53:58

What do you think? Where do you think the state of that is right now? You think it's, I think it's still on the rise. I mean I, you, where do? You think the state of that is right now. You think it's, I think it's still on the rise. I mean, I think I think we'll start seeing, like Starbucks single, that's a big again. We don't know if it's even real. This might just be BS.

Speaker 3 54:13

That's again. That's where I'm like. If they put a big fluffy couch in, then I'll know that they're. They want you to sit down for 25 minutes and get the hell out of there. Yeah, they want turnover.

Speaker 2 54:26

Yeah, and I don't blame them, but but like outside of that, do you think we'll we'll see more places Like where? Do you think it'll start to infiltrate a little bit more?

Speaker 3 54:33

Yeah, I mean, I think you're going to see, I think you're going to see growth in, in, especially areas like in dilapidated and run down, but you're going to see people like us talking about this I'm going to be cool to have a shop and it's got this and this You're going to see a lot more of that.

Speaker 3 54:49

We're just going to have a ton of vibes, places everywhere, and I think, too, there's going to be more public-private partnership in public going. We want traffic in this area. Here we're getting a streetcar, we want economic development to happen along that corridor. So we're going to work with you to figure out like how can we have public private partnership that allows someone who can't afford a million and a half dollar building? Like how?

Speaker 3 55:13

do we make. How can we make that work? Because you two seem to be uniquely equipped to bring something amazing to this.

Speaker 2 55:22

It's so interesting, too, because they're doing it with like skills pods and, like in nash, they have these pod parks that pop up and you split a storage pod in half and half of it's a bagel shop and half of it's a camera store and half of it's a stationary shop. These are all just local, run by locals. I think they call them incubators sometimes. It's a small business, you get in and you pay. I think, yeah, yeah, it's a small business, you get in, you pay.

Speaker 2 55:46

I think in nashville it's like three thirty five hundred dollars a month or something maybe even like fifty five hundred for like this, yeah, half the size of this room, right, but I mean that's you know, yeah, and I'm sure they have similar things in new york and I mean you see pop-ups in omaha.

Speaker 3 56:02

It's not as common, but but you know, maybe they might take signals like Workshop and Great Plains Vintage and Lost Items by Modern Mayhem Jackson Street, like, seeing, like okay, these places are doing really well. There's a lot of foot traffic, tax revenue is coming in. We want to figure out how to not, like in a ham-fisted, inauthentic way, create areas like that in other parts of the city, but, um, but figure out how to attract people that are longing for in-person experiences to go to these places, and they don't all need to be goddamn restaurants. It doesn't always have to be go out to eat. You guys went to Barnes Noble for three hours. Aaron and I went to a coffee shop and I know there's a food product there.

Speaker 2 56:56

And there's a theme here too. But yeah, it's just places where you can go, be exposed to new ideas Movie theaters and coffee shops and restaurants and galleries.

Speaker 3 57:11

I am certainly yearning for connection. It doesn't necessarily mean I want to find friends that I call up and we go to the movies and do this. But, like I'll go to Homer's, the record shop in the old market, because they open at 8 o'clock in the morning on Saturdays and I'll grab a coffee and check the bins.

Speaker 1 57:26

And.

Speaker 3 57:26

I don't even like I'm not shopping, I'm just like I want to go to a place and just check stuff out. That's what we do at Jackson.

Speaker 2 57:31

Jackson Street, yeah.

Speaker 3 57:32

And I met a gentleman there named Mark. I kind of gave him a hard time. He picked a couple 80s records. I'm like, oh, you're the one buying all the 80s records.

Speaker 3 57:38

And it started a conversation and then an hour later I saw him at Grapefruit and then I told him I'm like you should go check out Keynesville Collectibles and Council Bluffs. And then I went there later that, mark, what's your phone number? Let's go hang out. I'm gonna know Mark. I'm gonna know him by name. He's a character in the world of the third places that I go to.

Speaker 2 58:00

When it just makes you care so much more about your community.

Speaker 1 58:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2 58:04

You care. You're so much more invested in the experiences.

Speaker 3 58:09

Yeah, I mean. One of the best things in this tangent that I've been on with with analog and physical media and all that is grabbing records at the estate sales led to me creating meaningful relationships with Mike and Mark at Homer's and Dave and Simon and Kathleen at grapefruit and getting vintage clothing got me connected with Stefan and Trey at workshop and I you know it's so funny, it's just wonderful to go to those places and have rapport and chat and whatever.

Finding Connection in Physical Spaces

Speaker 3 58:40

And then I can go and they can go and we're good. And if I see him on Instagram, you know I can make, oh dude, that's awesome, can't wait to check that out. You know, like it's just this and it does mix with social media as well. You know it has this wonderful ecosystem of connection with everyone. I can see them in person. If I want, I can go to an event that they're hosting. I can tell you, hey, they're having a DJ thing at their store. Like, let's go on Saturday night and check it out. It's like I was really struggling with, like looking up going. I literally sit at this computer for 10 hours a day and the most third place I have is a Discord server with all my friends that don't live around here, um, and that we've turned it into a weekly thing rather than once a month, sometimes running into each other or grabbing coffee because we like we just need to catch up or get connected or whatever.

Speaker 3 59:44

Um and I I've had more emotional, spiritual, whatever fulfillment from these experiences, not only with my closest friends, but then the acquaintances. I mean, I had a conversation with someone at a third place that was very personal, about something that that person was going through in their personal life, and it wasn't like right out of the gate, Hi you know, what's your name and I'm going to spill this stuff to you.

Speaker 3 1:00:11

but they felt comfortable enough to talk about that stuff and I, you know love, you know talking about anything psychological you're willing to get into it. Get into it and like and this person was, was, and not because of me, necessarily, but there was a moment where this person teared up about someone listened to them.

Speaker 2 1:00:32

Yeah, and this is not me patting myself on the back but they just were like things that, things that were just commonplace. Yeah, 25 years ago, 30 years ago now seems so like, are you this?

Speaker 3 1:00:42

is like this can? This is nice, this is possible. What is?

Speaker 2 1:00:45

it and it's like stuff that, yeah, your grand, your grandparents, would be like yeah, what do you mean?

Speaker 3 1:00:52

yeah, yes, yeah we had cocktail parties every, every weekend. Yeah you, there's no neighborhood.

Speaker 2 1:00:57

That's it, it's you're doing that or you're just it was. It was funny cause I had the experience that, that same experience of like, oh, wow, yeah, this is such a silly thing. This has always been a thing, but I was, um, audrey was couple of weeks ago and I just went out and got dinner by myself. Oh, I love it and I just got dinner red, yeah, like while eating, uh, I went to um, I went to inner rail, yeah, just cause it was like.

Speaker 3 1:01:23

I love those places. Get it Solo dining.

Speaker 2 1:01:26

Yeah, and I just got a little table over in the corner there's a guy next to me, he's. I was like okay, that's cool, like that there's a good energy coming from that guy. There's good energy in the place. That place is always pretty alive. The food was great and I just hung out, I read for a little bit, I got up and I left it was like an hour and 15 minutes and I was like man, that was so pleasant.

Speaker 2 1:01:48

Plus, when you eat by yourself and you're used to always every time I go out.

Speaker 3 1:01:56

I'm used to buying like we were buying as a couple, right yeah, so it's double the price. This is so crazy.

Speaker 2 1:02:01

So no, it was such a pleasant experience.

Speaker 3 1:02:04

And that's the beauty of a place like that too, because sometimes you know you're someone that that um has introverted tendencies. Uh, it's nice to go. You know what I want? The energy from a third place. But I don't necessarily want, like the, the work sometimes of a third place.

Speaker 2 1:02:19

I don't want to have a conversation.

Speaker 3 1:02:20

I don't need to like maybe I've got a little bit of a time crunch or I just I want to be out, but not extroverted. You know, I can have that minimal experience and sometimes you get those serendipitous moments, moments with like you'll sure like okay, we were just the conversation was destined to to happen.

Speaker 2 1:02:41

Yes, yeah, those are great too. Yeah, um, I I typically don't. I'm not good at like forcing that initiative right like I, I don't, I will not engage I probably look like a.

Speaker 1 1:02:50

You know, I'm just like I'm keeping myself, but that's just how I like it, you know typically.

Speaker 2 1:02:56

But yeah, you know, whenever you do jump into a conversation and it can be about something silly like the weather or whatever, and you're just like that was nice.

Speaker 3 1:03:04

Yes, that was a nice exchange with another human. Yep, yeah, I think those are important, I'm glad that they have increased in frequency. For me, we're just very bullish on this concept of places like x, like places to hang out places, places to hang out, places to go. Yeah, and for me it's, you know, the estate sales on sunday mornings. Even if I'm not going to buy anything, I just like making the rounds, getting out, grab a coffee, talk to the people.

Speaker 2 1:03:29

It's just so funny that this is a quote-unquote trend like I know, like this is it's so yeah, just be being a human.

Speaker 1 1:03:38

It's back in style and it'd been a golden afternoon, and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer. Bye you, you.