Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Studio Sessions
50. Fragmented Culture: What Matters When Nothing Really Matters?
We examine whether culture has actually become decentralized or if we just live in isolated "slivers" while still being shaped by the same underlying systems. Starting with observations about feeling "out of touch" we explore how everyone now consumes completely different content yet we can still connect meaningfully with friends over shared experiences. This raises questions about what really drives human connection and whether platforms like YouTube and social media create genuine cultural diversity or just the appearance of choice.
The conversation shifts to fundamental tensions in how we structure our lives - particularly the conflict between work demands and what actually matters. We discuss the absurdity of modern situations where parents have to pay strangers to watch their children so they can focus on work, whether for survival or self-expression. This connects to the loss of extended family and community support systems that historically made work and family life compatible. We question whether our current approach to work, culture, and family serves human needs or just perpetuates systems that benefit markets rather than people. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
It had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summons. I know you and Audrey weren't there. Sorry, I touched your glass. You and Audrey weren't there at Alex's place when we watched the original cut of Star Wars and we wanted to go. The original cut of Star.
Speaker 2:Wars, and we wanted, we wanted to go. It was one of those things. Yeah, the night approach just like. Yeah, I don't know, I'm just kind of exhausted. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I just sit there and go, man, this is so great.
Speaker 2:And I see.
Speaker 1:Alex at the coffee show and I'm just like it is so wonderful to have Elijah and Alex and you and Audrey and Cody and Ashley and some of us can make it, you know the whole time Some of us can't Like this weekend I can't make it to see Heat. I just love that we have that.
Speaker 1:It's so great, and it's just great to have a crew of people that can be with each other effortlessly, you know, in Alex's apartment at a movie, hanging out at patient's beforehand, going out to dinner, whatever it is, and we just all have a great time.
Speaker 2:Man, that's hard, that's hard to get Well and it takes work Like you have to build it, you have to. The metaphor is like ridiculous. But you have to water that. You have to tend to it Right? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't it doesn't just happen without you know, without your input but you know, fortunately it takes time to develop too. Yeah, and that goes back to.
Speaker 1:You know Alex usually calls me. You know like there's the roles and the relationships that people take. You know, and we'll see in our like movie night friend circle that certain people tend to be the ones that initiate it over others. You know Elijah spoke up when he hadn't really before about. Was it about heat? Is he the one that messaged about putting heat on?
Speaker 2:the radar. I think Alex was putting heat on the radar. I think alex was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's funny, eli and I were talking about the, about doing ron the yeah, the yes at some point next week. So yeah, and then yeah I was like heat also so and I just like that, it's like, if that gets thrown out there and a couple people can't make it whether it's they're just not feeling it or they have a conflict it's not a big deal. Yeah, um no, it's great right.
Speaker 2:I want to keep building that out too, like get more people involved, but also like not lose right what's there and I mean, yeah, I want to follow up with some of those people we met, you know, before leaving. Yeah, um, just continue to build relationships with people doing interesting things. My, uh, my buddy came to town and it's funny, cause we just put out an episode what, like two weeks ago or something. When was the episode about? Um, what happens when you stop believing? Or cause I, I edited and like posted that, I know like a month or so ago, but right, um, it was, it was last episode was the ai, so it was either the one before the or two episodes ago yeah, we're almost at year three.
Speaker 2:By the way, we're about to move to season three for real yeah, so not this one. So yeah, because we're not the next one, but the next one will be our 52nd episode Holy shit, yeah, yeah. Since we do it every two weeks, yep, so that's two years. So that's two years of episodes. It's like we'll be moving into year three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have in my calendar app. The anniversary of when we started, when we recorded the first episode. So when we started, when we recorded, the first episode, so I'll have to double check. Help to double check what the date was when we did that pilot episode.
Speaker 2:Basically, I have a picture of you, yeah.
Speaker 1:With, like my Cubs hat on, I think that black Cubs hat. Yeah, where is that? Should be stuck to your computer monitor so you can look at it every day. There it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a date on the back of that, or not?
Speaker 1:Got the artifact black T-shirt. Got the black Cubs hat.
Speaker 2:What is that? I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:Something stuck to it yeah 721.22. So yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:Oh, there is a date.
Speaker 1:Yeah, july 21st 2025. It'll be three years.
Speaker 2:That's insane.
Speaker 1:Can you believe that? Yeah, that'll be the start of the third year.
Speaker 2:So two full years. But is that the pilot we did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there was like a buffer in between. Yeah, there was some time in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, that's Wow. Yeah, I mean, look, your hair was short, yeah.
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, short hair, and I wear my ball cap, which I still wear not too much.
Speaker 2:That's wild dude pretty cool recently.
Speaker 1:If anybody is watching the, video version.
Speaker 2:I did notice immediately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just got a you know, let's do a new thing it's crazy, it's a cool thing we'll have to now was that sx70 um no, not sx70, but uh sx 70? Um, no, not sx 70, but uh, what is it like? The 500? Okay or something. Yeah, yeah, I was testing a second sx 70 that I got. This is really good. By the way, I look forward to having interesting as soon as I'm done with this that is crazy.
Speaker 2:Good, but yeah, ss. Uh, you were saying you were testing an sx 70.
Speaker 1:I'm like man. This is that.
Speaker 2:Camera is just nice, magical yeah, it's cool, so well made. Have you seen the the eames video?
Speaker 1:I haven't seen the eames video, but my wife and I just finished, and maybe it is the eames video, but we just finished. I forget what. Who showed it, but it was a documentary on edwin land, the and polaroid gotcha like an hour no, this was the launch of the product of the sx70?
Speaker 2:no, it was an eames. Charles eames, okay, charles, and ray eames. Um, it was a video like a launch video. It's pretty cool. They're unfolding it and putting it. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's on youtube all over the place, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll watch it because, yeah, we just watched this documentary on land and it was a good, comprehensive overview with some good details here, and there good information. But yeah, I'd like something a little bit more micro than macro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is cool. It'll just give you an appreciation for the design and the camera.
Speaker 1:Ooh yeah, when I was looking through the viewfinder and operating the focus and then just like how it felt when the actual picture came out. You know, this thing's made out of metal and it has, uh, leather or some kind of faux high quality leather on there, like I'm just like. This thing feels really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you think? Do you think it'll be a trend or do you think it'll be a? There'll be a movement. To move back to the issue is everything is computer-based yeah there's not a lot of electronics that aren't just computer-based yeah it's almost the easiest route at this point um, so that limits things, but do you think there will be a move towards higher quality materials again?
Speaker 2:yeah I, I mean I think so this see, and I guess just I want to give a little bit of context, because one I totally understand that I exist in a space that's kind of like I could sit here and be like I feel like there's more, but there's there's probably not like more high quality material saturating the marketplace, it's probably just I'm seeking be more of a push towards products that have longevity. Um, it could just be like a small social upcry kind of thing that I'm. It's kind of landing on my side of. I don't really have a lot of algorithms in my life anymore, but you know there's still done a good job.
Speaker 1:There's still things that are pushing.
Speaker 2:So maybe that's just something I'm picking up on, or maybe it's confirmation bias, whatever, but personally I would love to see more. Do you think there's a case, but do you think that it's something that could happen?
Speaker 1:I think it probably is happening. It's just harder to discover the people or places that are making, yeah, higher quality stuff you know, for example, artifact bag company that's the t-shirt I'm wearing in that, like they are doing, that they are making high quality leather, vintage materials, that they're sourcing and making bags and stuff in a high quality way That'll last forever. Yeah, I don't know if I sent you the. You know, and this isn't like. We all know about this.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I sent you the documentary about how they make, how Hermes makes the Birkin bag. I think it's Hermes that does it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you did. Hermes makes the Birkin bag, I think it's Hermes that does it. Yeah, I think you did, Because it was severely overpriced. Obviously it's overpriced to me. I don't have enough money to buy a Birkin bag.
Speaker 1:If you do, maybe it's, and I'm not saying that they're necessarily representative of what you're talking about that they're necessarily representative of what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:But but you, the thing I was trying to get at is the. Was it the video that was saying it costs like four thousand dollars to produce a birkenback or something?
Speaker 1:that may have been the title, I can't remember, but it was really an inside look at, like, what their values are. They don't care if you're a billionaire and you ask for one like they'll, it'll just be available when it's available and there's a backlog. They talk about how much training goes into the people that make the bag. It didn't make me go I want one and I'm going to kill myself to get one but it just made me appreciate that they have not succumbed to just chasing profit.
Speaker 1:Like a fast fashion Gucci t-shirt, kind of yeah it's like they really have stuck to their guns about what their core mission is, their values, the things that are non-negotiable, what they'll do and what they won't do, and I think that there are other companies and makers of things who are doing that. It could be somebody that is making leather wallets in their garage and they have a small customer base that they cater to Artifact bag, a much larger.
Speaker 2:So I think they're out there.
Speaker 1:And I think there's just this natural cycle with a company where there's a mission and conviction and strong values and appreciation of quality and all that, and they build a product. And then there's a deciding point Am I going to move more towards the commerce side and start embracing being bought out by another company, finding less expensive materials, cheaper labor, to take what I've built and then extract as much revenue out of it as I can by, you know, reducing cost, quality whatever, versus the ones that stick to those ideals and maybe sacrifice growth or they sacrifice being a publicly traded company, you know, on the New York Stock Exchange, all that kind of stuff for just really developing incredible expertise. For just really developing incredible expertise artisan artisanship, is that even a word and craft and building something that is high quality.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think, with all the noise out there and social media and you are a good example of this you've kind of turned it all off so that you don't even really.
Speaker 1:I mean, it took half a decade of effort, though it's not yeah, it's but you don't even you're not even on the platforms where some of those brands might bubble up to where you're aware of them. So you're really relying on, maybe, word of mouth discovery in person. A friend of yours that you go camping with has this thing that you notice and you're like whoa, what's that?
Speaker 1:you know, like this isn't old, this isn't something vintage, this is a new thing that's really well made, and then you learn about it that way, right, somebody curates yeah that for you um proof of yeah, uh, and that's really the thing like you are not. You're not. I mean you're not not on the internet like you yeah you watch youtube videos, they, they, they do hit you, but it's just not the traditional way that we all are.
Speaker 2:It is like processing the noise and sometimes finding a little would you say, and this is a genuine question, because we were, when we were traveling, we my buddy had his brother, two his two brothers and his sister over. Yeah, they're like early 20s and his youngest brother is, you know, late teens, yeah, and very different generation. And it was one of those times where I definitely, like audrey, and I left and I was like when people are like, oh, I feel old, yeah, like you, just don't not, not in a sense of like, oh, I want to try to read like it, but just like, like the speaking in memes and that kind of thing, like that's kind of how that family, their family, communicates, and I mean I don't, I don't care, I don't have any like, go for it, like that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Go for it, do whatever you want, but I definitely, like I'm not in that world, right, and I mean I can definitely see something and be like, oh, that, like I get the. It's funny, um, and it's I mean, everybody, I, I used to, we used to have our group chats and things like that where you just send memes all day but, um, just not on those platforms anymore. So the flow stops eventually and I was definitely like man, I feel out of touch with what that. Like I don't feel off touch.
Speaker 2:I choose to do like I've really worked hard to try to get to the point where I'm, where I am. So I don't feel out of touch and like I gotta be, like I don't really have FOMO about any of that thing, any of that stuff. I'm focused on other stuff. I've got plenty to put my attention to. But I did feel, feel I I don't know what that is, I'm not plugged into that. That world, do you feel like I'm there, isn't out of touch, like when you talk to me sometimes you feel like, uh, like maybe say something that is out of touch or maybe I'm not. I'm curious because you, like, you're not even super plugged in.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the thing, though is like you're, you're more plugged in than I am, which is funny because of our yeah. Well, the the thing with being plugged in nowadays is there's so much out there that you can be plugged into this like sliver of culture. And so almost everybody I know is disconnected is out of touch with something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's so many little niches that we all occupy. You know, are there some overlaps in the stuff that we the general topic photography. You know whatever, sure, but you're not watching. You know whatever Sure, but you're not watching. You know the content that I watch about photography. You're not watching the stuff I watch about um.
Speaker 1:You know video editing and AI, you're not you know what I mean Like there's some general awareness of it, but uh, but I'm also out of touch for the things that you're into and it might be you know some of the books that you're reading how you're using AI in your work versus mine. You're plugged in more a little bit to just the day-to-day life in the advertising world. But you know specifically to what you're doing.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say that, not the world, but like your, world of advertising.
Speaker 1:you know what you're doing here in Omaha. So there's something about when we all come together that we bring our experiences of these slivers of culture, eli bringing his knowledge of movies I've never even heard of and bringing that to bear and they watch some trailers that are a little movie hangout that I was like I had no idea movies like this even existed yeah you know, and I'm like excited, uh to to watch them.
Speaker 1:So you know, when we all get together, we're getting each other in touch with what we're all, yeah, focusing on or consuming in these slivers of culture. Sometimes you keep it to yourself because it it just doesn't come up organically. Yeah, dynamic, like well, let me tell you about this one guy that thrifts clothing at abandoned buildings in the plains. You know, like, while you might go, that's kind of interesting. Yeah, it to just like bring that to bear on a group dynamic. It's like cool. You know, matt's little world is very specific and we don't know anything about it, but I don't sit there and go. You guys are out of touch.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But that also goes back to the previous conversation we had and I'll button up so you can reply. But this goes back to a few episodes ago where we talked about. There's only very few things that a huge amount of us experience together, the Super Bowl being one of them or some big news event Back in the day, everybody tuning in to the OJ verdict when I was a kid and that trial going on Even that stuff, though I feel like people now, to more of an extent than then, kind of see it for what it is.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is, this is an event that the media really cares about that Like this is being pushed on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I watched hyped up. We watched, um, what was it called? There's a Capra film from 1941. And this just goes to. I can like remember the year and the, but I can't remember the fucking title. I might have to pull it up, but we watched it last night, so I don't know but it was on TCM.
Speaker 2:Amazing, haven't seen it before. Yeah, definitely some similar vibes. It's a wonderful life, but it seemed like it was a restored copy. It looked really, really good for a 1941 film and I think it was right before Capra went off to film the war. Um, obviously, you know the U? S got involved in World War II not not long after that. But, um, I mean, it was this this film about. Essentially, they created a story out of this guy. So, you know, girl gets fired from her job as a, as a writer for a paper, and then she makes, she writes this letter, this john doe letter, about this guy who's pissed off with the state of the world and he's gonna jump off a building. I feel it. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:And he's going to jump off a building on christmas eve oh, okay, and he's going to kill himself yeah, definitely a connection there to come wonderful completely made up um letter and then, uh, the next day they decide oh, we want to run with this and create a character around this. And it creates this movement. Like the John Doe movement, it gets totally pushed by all of the levers of power from the 40s.
Speaker 2:You're very familiar with that. After some of our forays last year, All of the public relations push, and then the guy who owns the paper is letting this happen because he's seeing in the back of his mind oh my God, I'm going to be able to take advantage of this.
Speaker 2:And it's dealing with all of these amazing themes on populism, and I mean just power, but also the idea, even though it's being supported in a way of manipulation Capra's really, really good at doing this in his films it's like it's still a beautiful idea, yeah, like, even though it's being manipulated, it's so, um, yeah, that just gets me, gets me thinking about. You know, I went down a complete rabbit hole, but essentially yeah, I feel how this connection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Essentially it gets me thinking about how you know these things were manufactured and I feel like now we have more of a grasp on that, so people get less excited, Like the OJ verdict today. I don't know if it would be as big of a deal. It might just come and go and this, like this build in the movie, was 1941.
Speaker 2:This took you know this was like a nine month pull and it's a great film. I highly recommend watching it. I'll pull it up in a second so I can give the actual proper recommendation. But it's like a nine-month pull and nowadays one there's a greater literacy with media and public relations et cetera, but also there's just less of an attention span because there's more happening, but there's also the stakes are a little lower. Attention span, um, because there's more happening but there's also the stakes are a little lower. Yeah, so you know that same story would have maybe a two-day, like the oj story. Maybe you check in on it, maybe I'm off, maybe I'm off with that, but it just seems like things like that are less and less and that was kind of the thesis of our episode when we did the episode right, but yeah, I mean, I think there are some things there's less overlap now as a society you've right.
Speaker 1:I think there are some things that can happen that bubble up in world events, culture, whatever that you know a lot of people are talking about. Is it at the same level as it was 20, 40, 60 years ago? Not necessarily. What's interesting is you reference, you know, the family or whatever, having sort of the memes that made you start this thread, where you were like, am I out of touch? What's interesting about the meme is and I'm just thinking this through the top of my head is it's sort of like the unifying force between all of our different individual experiences of these slivers of culture. You know we I can't communicate these things that I'm consuming and this sliver and this sliver and this sliver, but the one thing that you would understand if I shared it with you is a you know a meme you know of steve carell saying this or that, you know whatever oh, it's, it's just the you know you you talk about like younger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's a completely modern right. It's like a post-language form of communication, it's really and so we have all useful to connect. You know how we react to things, how we communicate um, it's just like a genre of communication that I don't get, like the, the brain rot like, and that that's what it's actually. It's like brain rot culture, like that's the, I guess the cultural rapper, yeah, I just don't, I'm not plugged into that right and it kind of came post my internet experience, or at least it came into the zeitgeist post my internet experience.
Speaker 2:So like I guess I understand what it is, but I sound ridiculous talking about it because I'm you know, I'm going at it from an intellectual standpoint rather than just a cultural standpoint or social standpoint. Yeah, and I just yeah, I was like I left that feeling old. And so then, yeah, I've just been wondering the last couple of weeks like I wonder if I seem like I'm out of touch on certain things. But then I think you kind of we came to a similar conclusion to what you just said about everybody's their own thing. It's like after at a certain there is no zeitgeist. Everything breaks apart.
Speaker 1:So that goes back to you referenced just a minute ago, Edward Bernays, and how we watched the century of the self. That's all by design, that we all have our own little custom, hyper individualized experiences of culture. I mean it's going to continue to get more and more focused in around whatever little sliver of culture that we're a part of.
Speaker 2:I would argue, though, that that's probably good if, because that's the closest you're going to get to true decentralization and culture which is beautiful, like decentralized culture is a beautiful idea. Um, if it's real, manufactured. Decentralized culture is one thing which I think is more of a bernays kind of we're going to break everybody into subgroups. There's seven of them is decentralized culture possible. It feels like we're getting there Like it's we we are we exist in shattered.
Speaker 2:I mean like like there's, there is, everything is shattered but you can pretty much find somebody to just really quick it's meet John Doe by Frank Capra 1941 is the film, okay, um, but yeah, we're we're kind of reaching a point where culture is so shattered that there's no putting it back together.
Speaker 1:I mean again, it could just be confirmation bias, it could just be me projecting this, hoping that this is what's happening when in reality it's not? Are there any examples that you can think of? Of things that represent currently decentralized culture.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's go through. This might be a helpful exercise. Let's go through your interest and my interest.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And just like you and I are very close, Like you and I, you you know what we said earlier we're on the same wavelength a lot of the time. Yep, we have night and day different interests across the board and certain things I mean there's crossover.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like for example, you watching me, john doe, my friend and I'm last night watching. Uh, you know guys on YouTube that are hitting up like yard sales and estate sales for cool vintage shit. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like that's I mean things that you like. Okay, Off the top of your head. What are, like, the five things you're most interested in right at this moment? Um, you don't have to be like no moment.
Speaker 1:Um, you don't have to be like no yeah, no, uh, you know, just sort of like retro, vintage stuff yeah whether it's tech or, you know, media um music yeah uh, in the sense of like very specific genres collecting.
Speaker 2:Is that more collecting or is?
Speaker 1:yeah, I collecting, collecting to consume, yeah but not like playing music no playing playing to oh yeah, all day long yeah yeah, like, like instrument playing instrument. No, sorry, yeah, not playing music myself, but listening to right, all right right right um fashion yeah, um, which is yeah dope, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is yeah dope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah or sort of you know but which subset Like that's a huge yeah, Streetwear more or vintage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably vintage. It's definitely sort of like following the herd right now versus like I'm going to.
Speaker 2:You're not into like Victorian like. Yeah, I'm not like I did buy a sick book that I'll show you, but keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not like out there coming up with my own look, which you know obviously wouldn't be. It would be pulling from different things and influences whatever. I guess like, yeah, what I mean, we don't think about the five, but those are. Those give you a kind of a spectrum of like what is on my plate right now with what I am into. Is there any movies now reading, I mean just going through like 1960s American novels right now, which is true, you know territory that you've treaded as well yeah now, that's cool, a gentleman's wardrobe.
Speaker 1:So get me a valet so they can put my clothes on for me.
Speaker 2:I thought some of the uh, some of the illustrations are just really. Yeah, this is cool. Yeah, we found this at jackson street and they gave me a pretty good deal on it. Yeah, like I just love these illustrations. This is a complete you know off the rail, but no, this is great.
Speaker 1:Look at that, yeah it's, it's sweet, yeah, this is like everything in here just feels like sort of timeless, but then also completely out of education.
Speaker 2:Well, educational like this is. The situation is this night situation is this yeah, knitwear, underwear, footwear.
Speaker 1:so, but to get back to the original point Now, I would watch a YouTube video about this, and this is kind of a sad thing. Not that I wouldn't acquire this book and have it, but you will probably pour over this where I might not.
Speaker 2:Well and I'm like you talk about interest. Well, that's just something I'm interested in, like building a library.
Speaker 1:Right Like like.
Speaker 2:that's something that intrigues me, like the connection of ideas building my own you know. Map of ideas and of sources and things like that. Like that's interesting to me, that's interesting to me, and I mean again, I'm just trying to prove, like off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:You named things and it's like Photography is another one for me, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean like obviously there's things that always kind of consume, like photography, film, yeah, big categories, yeah, you know the novel then like whiskey, like I.
Speaker 2:I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, yeah, like we can be alike and we can have completely similar wavelengths and parallel thinking on a lot of these things and then be completely interested in different things and I'm like that's kind of a cool, decentralized, yeah, way to go about, about looking at things like I think humans have always had. I think humans don't really connect on interest. Humans connect on something deeper. Maybe that's you know, maybe that's not true, but it's always kind of been my intuition that humans, like we're, we connect because we, you know why, I don't know why. Why do we connect? It's like we, there's trust, there's um admiration, there's um a bit of, I think there's probably like a pneumatic desire. There's just obviously, shared interest is a part of it. We do have shared interest, but there's deeper things than just like oh, we like the same five things.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of it comes down to just honestly, chemistry or something energy wise I think it's just yeah, there's like a mix of all these things attracts and it creates what I talked about earlier, sort of that ease of being together. Yeah, like I said, with how many of us?
Speaker 1:two, four, five six seven of us yeah it's pretty amazing that seven people can get together and just hang out, yeah, hang out, yeah effortlessly and have a good time without there being, you know, and you know what it is like when you're with somebody and it's sort of like a little bit of work to like have a conversation or sort of like those moments of where it gets quiet and you're like it's a little awkward.
Speaker 2:You're just tired of it, yeah. Like there isn't like there isn't that feeling of like.
Speaker 1:I don't want you to go you know, like you know, like sort of like okay, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see ya, you're like, this has been great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been great, and I'm not.
Speaker 2:I would love to hear your devil's advocate then on the. Is that something that you?
Speaker 1:Well, when I was asking, it wasn't like I don't agree with you and give me an example to help me see your point of view.
Speaker 2:No, and I didn't take it that way. Yeah, good.
Speaker 1:Mine was sort of like this is a new idea for me decentralized culture and I'm curious if you can throw out some examples that make me feel like I'm with you in understanding that idea.
Speaker 2:And I'm not sure if I necessarily threw out the best. I think, if we can, if we overlap, my thinking was okay if we overlap so much, and then our top five interests are completely different. It's like think about two people that don't overlap, like everybody's just kind of has their own subculture at this point, and maybe I recognize that, or I think I recognize that just because I'm involved in a lot of subcultures, and like there's a lot of different. I mean, we were talking about it a little bit pre-show, like there's some people that I'll talk to about a certain collection of topics that there's absolutely no crossover with somebody else who I'm really close to, with somebody else who I'm really close to. And yeah, you can just kind of see the amount of, I guess, the stark contrast between individuals. There's just so many things to be into nowadays.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what I was getting at, and there's still a monoculture like here's the weird paradox of it all is I actually do think that monoculture is an issue. Yes, I also think simultaneously and I don't. These ideas don't work together, so I don't know why.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think simultaneously we're in the most shattered, fractured, decentralized version of culture that's ever existed. I wonder if that's like just really, you know it might just be me being an idiot too.
Speaker 1:I think there's like there's an objective understanding that coincides with an awareness of monoculture. Objectively it's there, you know, whatever. But then our subjectivity comes in and we're like, but no, like we're all experiencing, like these very unique slivers, unique slivers, and da, da, da, like it. It doesn't feel like what my consumption and contribution is to culture is part of the monoculture. It feels very unique to me, it feels very subjective, it feels very personal and I think part of what I was asking you about examples was, you know, again, just probing this idea of, but it's the source of that fabricated yeah Well, like what you just said, it's like do we do?
Speaker 2:we just feel like we're different, but then there's like we're all coming from the same core idea, right. But I think the best test of this is another backbone of this episode of just. I have continued to follow my interest as they come up, as I've pulled myself away from more algorithms and it like that. That's a pretty good test, I now I guess. But it also depends on what are your, what are your core categories? Right, because you can always build a core category that encompasses all of these shattered cultures and be like everybody's the same. That's you know. That's just a way to argue your way out of this. So are we building, you know, base categories that are containing all of these cultural fragments, and then you're in a monoculture that appears to be the opposite, right, so I see how that's potential. But then, like, what is culture ever?
Speaker 2:right like what is? You know, we're all humans and I mean I I think that there's probably some core beliefs that I have that are different from other people, and then there's core beliefs that other people have that are different from, and then there might be large swaths of the world that have similar beliefs, but the fact that there are counter beliefs out there, I think is a is a powerful indicator that there is fragmentation. Am I even no. I might just be too.
Speaker 1:I had too much whiskey, but I just think it's an interesting idea to explore. This just feels like an exploration of it. I mean, just some things that you're just bringing up are not new to me, but sort of I'm thinking of them in new ways.
Speaker 2:And I'm not sure I might just be spewing nonsense.
Speaker 1:Um there's, there's a chance, like, but I feel like we're trying to figure, not figure something out, like get the answer but we're just trying to like wrap our heads around this little bit of word salad for me in doing so, but I don't know, I feel like like it's one of these things where it's like the real meat of this idea is at the tip of my tongue I'm like I'm not hearing and saying the things that like, let, let me unlock step into the deeper layers of it well, it's like what?
Speaker 2:maybe? Maybe it's helpful to start with. What does decentralized culture look like in the first place? Yeah, like, because if, if it's decentralized culture, but it all stems from youtube videos, then that's not decentralized culture, that's that's bottlenecked, and then it has the appearance of decentralization, but it doesn't for us.
Speaker 1:And the other thing for me is and please correct me if some of the things I'm like, well, that's not what I mean by decentralized, but thinking about us coming up with individuals, coming up with what their contribution to culture is, a new way of making artwork or new forms or new ideas, and and I'm probably a little bit more towards sort of like representations of popular culture rather than sort of like the broad spectrum- of.
Speaker 2:That's always been our dynamic.
Speaker 1:Those, yeah, yeah, popular culture versus you know, in the process of that ebb and flow of like, do things come up from a decentralized culture but become centralized, because that's what culture does we see other things and then everybody starts to mimic it yeah and centralize it in a sense, or are we talking about centralization? Is some, you know, people in positions of power want things to be a certain way, so they populate the world with the things that they that want the cultural representations that they want the cultural movements that they want.
Speaker 2:Well, I think I think the meet john doe example is fitting here, because capric kind of has the understanding or had the understanding that and I think I probably agree with this more than um I I typically I tend to lean towards there's, there's no grand plan on anything. Most things are.
Speaker 2:It's Occam's razor combined with, uh, just observation yeah and, like you said, you know, in in meet john doe. You know there's there's a power character, um, who wants to kind of use this movement right, but he's just kind of like let's see where it goes I can see the potential that this becomes something huge and then obviously you don't extract until it becomes extractable until it reaches that um extraction point like look, now it's.
Speaker 2:And and it's, it's completely, it's a genuine and again, getting back to what capra just chose so well, is like this is a genuine movement. These are pure ideas in the sense of in any kind of sense of human purity or ethical purity. These are, these are good, honest, like truthful ideas, um, but they're being monitored to when's the moment I can flip that switch, and that's culture. Is that that to an extent? And I guess decentralized culture to me means we're slowly destroying the switch. So you have things that are pushing and pushing and we're slowly destroying the ability to be able to flip a switch because there's not enough concentration behind any one thing.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously, that's what decentralization is worth doing, it's worth doing or even it's graspable enough to to flip a switch and maybe I'm off. Maybe that's something you know. Obviously that is a utopic vision in my mind. I would love to be in a world where that's because that I mean that solves a lot of issues. Yeah, Manipulation is a lot harder when you psychological manipulation is a lot harder when you have nothing to manipulate.
Speaker 2:Right and everything is fragmented, have nothing to manipulate when everything is fragmented. You know, people talk about fragmentation of interest or of belief, like it's a terrible thing and it is if, like. If anything maybe that's an idea that hasn't decentralized enough yet is that conflict stems from fragmentation, what we talked about earlier. I don't think conflict necessarily stems from like we can have different interests and still care about each other, or, you know, just love being together and love hanging out.
Speaker 2:So there's something else that's guide or that's pushing that human connection outside of that and, if anything, yeah, maybe that's an idea that's yet to decentralize, that's something that is being pushed because it is useful you know, from a, from a power standpoint, of fragmentation or of um disagreement is like the yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's complete jumble or if that that was like coherent thought, but no I think the thing that I was, um, sinking my teeth into a little bit was yeah, the see, and you're talking like this. So so to me, the right Seeing something that's happening, waiting for it to develop, and then flipping the switch when the timing is right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most useful. And you've talked about that idea attract and extract Right.
Speaker 1:Well, and the other thing I'm getting at is someone who is paying attention to one thing and then sees this thing that's happening, sees that it could be something, monitors it closely, finds the moment where they can flip the switch, and then does so Versus the person going why am I waiting to see what's developing to then flip the switch? Why don't I be the one who develops it? Yeah, watch it develop and then wait for the switch to happen? Yeah, that's, and that goes back to um, the stuff that we we talked about a long time ago, about um, the, the documentary on the cool thing like like they made sprite cool to the hip hop community.
Speaker 2:Just really quick, though I think that breaks down when you have each like. So if you're thinking in traditional, like free market dynamics, if you have a properly decentralized culture, then I mean, yes, there is the, there is the the. I mean, yes, there is the. I guess, exception to that, that they pick something that is so aligned that you can grab enough people to make it worthwhile. I mean most things that are inherently self-interested. Don't strike that the.
Speaker 2:The likelihood is, at least theoretically the likelihood is that you're not going to be able to compete with those ideas right that are truly decentralized and do carry that, that truth, to them with something that is driven to extract or that is created and right, yeah, propagated to extract. It would be my counter argument.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's sensible, yeah yeah, I know, I, I think I see that as well. Yeah, I think for me, just like emotionally and talking about this, you know, there, there's that aspect of me that just goes how you know, how do you take away? Can you eliminate people pulling strings and influencing?
Speaker 1:yeah and influencing small or large groups of people towards something, shepherding them along to the thing that they want to see happen. And is there a way to? Is there a point that we can reach culturally where that's really not possible? Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, and where I would say I guess arguing against my own thesis would be it is a platform-driven culture is a platform-driven idea. Can you give examples?
Speaker 1:of platforms. In that context I mean Like YouTube as a platform, or just like the newspaper as a platform.
Speaker 2:I mean mediums, platforms like yes, youtube, it's just. Culture is something that's driven by humans communicating right. So wherever you bottleneck human communication, then you're affecting the incentive structure of that communication.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've talked about it before but, yeah, YouTube has an incentive structure. A podcast has an incentive structure. Now, I think podcasting is great, obviously by we're doing one yeah, by we're doing one. I think it is a platform that may have reached escape velocity where it's decentralized enough, but you see people trying to centralize it. You see Spotify doing Spotify exclusives, or you see these YouTube, Google podcasts or whatever. There's people that are trying to get control over it. That's right and that's the biggest threat to decentralized culture. Like, yes, you know, if culture predominantly comes from YouTube, Twitter and Facebook, it's not decentralized, Right. Or you know TikTok, it's probably TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook to a lesser extent.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But those are the primary drivers of culture right now, unfortunately, right, and so yeah, that's not decentralized.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Now, yes, there is culture that builds around bookstores getting old books. There's culture that builds around hanging out with friends and things like that.
Speaker 2:Things like that are starting to pick up and grab more real and then you're I mean also you can talk about, like, if you're just looking through a tech lens like technological decentralization. There are platforms that are starting to try to pop up in those spheres, but I mean, yeah, it's, how do you propagate culture? It's still pretty decentralized. It's less decentralized, though, than when it was just the television and the radio and the newspaper, maybe.
Speaker 1:I mean, those are still mediums, right.
Speaker 2:Those are still mediums? Yeah, and I would argue maybe not, but now there's more interest. And what are you seeing? Uh, as, as all of these platforms abuse them, their audiences, um, you know, as Facebook makes you forces you to pay for advertising if you want to develop an audience. Or as youtube I saw that you know, things all.
Speaker 2:As all of these things start to happen and these platforms are trying to extract and you start to see people go to alternatives, um, I mean, that's decentralization happening in real time? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Maybe I'm just optimistic, like because it is something that I think would solve a lot of our issues. Yeah, if we reached a point where that was and yeah, I mean right now that you're right, though the problem is, it's not it might not be better there might be more control, and now you have a bunch of data driving recommendations of anything yeah um.
Speaker 2:So it has to overcome that as well, which is just overcoming those platforms. But you are seeing, alternatives start to pop up.
Speaker 1:Well, you're also just seeing. I mean, you're an example of someone that you know reduced your presence in those platforms. You know, obviously you still have a connection to youtube, but it's much different and under your control, rather than just what you're being fed um. You're not on instagram, facebook, all of those things hardly at all in, and you're certainly not um active on a smartphone.
Speaker 2:Um, uh, I get much. I get all of my information pretty much through text at this point, through AI scrubs and things like that.
Speaker 1:So predominantly your experience of the world and culture, you could argue, comes from, let's say, human interaction, person in-person interaction, reading books, watching movies that you choose. It's not like you're flipping through cable, it's not like you know, you're just sort of like skimming.
Speaker 2:Whatever you see him is playing that night sure, sure but yeah and I think more people are moving towards.
Speaker 1:You know, obviously you know, and that's becoming sort of a I don't want to say a trend, but just like a part of culture is a rejection of the traditional ways to consume culture.
Speaker 2:I don't think I'm special. I think I'm probably. I mean, am I the majority? Am I even a substantial?
Speaker 1:minority, you know, do you think you were an early adopter of this though, of this, even just like your first step toward going? I need to start.
Speaker 2:I hesitate. I mean, who knows, who knows, I might be on a completely different trend line than everybody else. Like it might just be something that, yeah, I mean, you know, I think anybody likes to be like oh yeah, I'm an early adopter. But like I realized I don't even mean that as like a, like a like a you know, a feather in your cap.
Speaker 1:I just mean like you were exploring dumb phones and ways to sort of like, you know, not be in the social throes of social media and all that stuff for a while now.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's been a, it's been years I think it's just so like my circumstances led me to, I mean, like I grew up with adhd yeah I was like this is not good for that, like this is not.
Speaker 2:And then, just yeah, I just happen to have a special conversion of different interests that led to me being like oh, it's like I'm also kind of a nut about, like what I eat and things like that. Right, that was because when I was a kid I had the opposite experience and I had to, like, work my way out of that.
Speaker 1:So what's interesting about civics of? You know dumb phone and you know, being off social media. It is interesting when we're out with other people that use it, and use it either normally or maybe not apt.
Speaker 2:Normally, but maybe if slightly excessively or whatever, or they think they do there's something about those in-person interactions, where I think people are intrigued by the possibility of doing something similar the most frequent thing I hear is you know, I think I've been thinking about getting one of those. Yeah yeah I've heard that a hundred times. Yeah and or I would man, that's great, I would love to do that and I my conversion ratio zero percent.
Speaker 1:But then at the same time, you know and this is obviously uptick in sort of my feed on YouTube of all these videos about people who? Is this a proper use of this? They've just decentralized their technology, so it's not just an iPhone that has this, this, this and this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that works. They went to a literal camera, a notebook.
Speaker 1:They broke it up into all of the individual ingredients and use those to live their lives yeah and therefore, you know, avoiding the, the, the centralization and everything through the phone, social media, media in general, youtube, everything that they're consuming through that, through that um device. Um, so it's, there's not a huge, super great intellectual point here, but it's just interesting that this is becoming more and more prevalent, at least in my view of my slip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, culture is, you know, disconnecting to a certain extent or or moving, yeah, fully toward analog, analog tech to well, the metaphor is always the pendulum, right, yeah, and I I do think the pendulum goes one way, it goes the other and, yeah, I mean, you see, you're going to see a rejection of a lot of the stuff that is popped up over the last 20 years. You're also part of. It is probably, um, people starting to realize that there's not one way to look at the world. Yeah, um, even if that's not one way to look at the world, yeah, even if that's not the primary thing, that is kind of understood, it's, it's almost intuited that, oh, there's more.
Speaker 2:You can view the world through more than one lens and they can all be correct simultaneously. Um, like oh, through more than one lens, and they can all be correct simultaneously. Um like oh, maybe everything is not progress-based or maybe everything is not, um, there's just different, yeah, different outlooks. Um, and multiple things can be true at once. We've talked about that on this, on this show, several times. But yeah, I mean, I I think you're seeing a reaction to 20 years of one way of thinking yeah and a lot of people who said I agree with that, that's right.
Speaker 2:And then they said maybe that's not. I'm not as sad. I mean, at the end of the day, like what hasn't changed is that everybody that's ever been alive is dead now, like there's just certain things that don't really change and we can add all of these little creature comforts to our life. But, yeah, we're still dealing with the same, dealing with the same programming in a, in a sense, that we've always had. And I mean, yeah, some people have they feel more stressed or more, um, they're more aware of that timeline than others, and you know, maybe that drives some of this. But yeah, it's like you're only, you're only gonna be. You know every, every like, even we talk about all the time, like we gotta appreciate when we're doing these things. You know we're like, oh man, three years goes by like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're just like we're all toast, there's nothing, there's no way around that, and most of what we're doing probably doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. And yeah, I think when people really start to contend with that idea and it's like, how long can you block that out? Um, before you know you have to come to terms with it. And when you have to come to terms with it and you start looking at it, um, in relation to our contemporary setting, at least for me, I was like this is just ridiculous, this is stupid. I don't want to do these things. This is not where I want my time to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my very hyper limited time your attention, my attention, yeah, just my, I mean which is you spend a lot more time dead than you do alive, which is sort of what everybody's fighting for. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like how do we get you to pay attention to our thing? Yeah, so we can get you to think a certain way or spend your money a certain way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then it's just like how stupid a lot of those things are anyways, like thinking a certain way, like that matters in the grand scheme of anything, or spending your money in a certain way, like that matters in the grand scheme of spending your dollars in a certain way, like how stupid that that is at the end of the day, right Um, you know I'm not fighting against financial security or like you know it's. It's like the system is the system Like there's not.
Speaker 2:There's not a lot that can be changed there, and I you know I'm not really interested in hearing people argue about how to change it, but it's like there's plenty of options, you have plenty of choices that you can make within that and, um, it's kind of up to you. At that point it's in your hands. Yeah and yeah, do it or don't. It doesn't change anything. Clock's still ticking. I know it sounds kind of bummy too. Oh, I have been a little sad lately, thinking like that's kind of my mindset lately.
Speaker 1:I'll give you an example and I hope this doesn't start some new big thread, but I sit there and go. My wife called me today because she's trying to get her work done. But the kids who are home for summer break I had to step out for a little bit who are home for summer break, have the things that they're contending with, their issues, the things they want to do, the things they can't do, all that stuff and it's interfering with her focus on her work and people that are both trying to work have earn revenue level up in the world it's. I sat there and think on the phone I'm like it's just nuts that we have to eat, like we have to think about having someone watch our kids for us over the summer, because they on occasion create obstacles for us to just focus on getting our work done.
Speaker 2:What is the work, even working towards? Anyway, I'm not trying to say that you guys' work doesn't matter but. I also might believe that nobody's work really matters.
Speaker 1:Right, you just sit there and go my kids and raising them and being with them and loving them and helping them solve problems and teaching them, all that stuff Like this is of paramount importance in the big scheme of things. But yet we, you know we want to. You know we have thoughts of how do we have, how do we pay somebody else to watch our kids so we can stare at the computer and like type shit up and click on stuff and you know, whatever, like it's just I think about that stuff and I just go. It's just so crazy that all of these constructs and things that we have built as people and you gotta have a job and you gotta make money and you gotta do this, you know you gotta do that and it it makes you want to set aside the thing that matters most, which is being with your kids and teaching them and loving them and protecting them and raising them, and you know all of that stuff.
Speaker 2:It's it's just nuts to me it's silly, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:And and I'm part of it.
Speaker 1:You know I'm out here chasing this vintage thing to flip it for a profit, or I'm out trying to vlog this or do that with my YouTube channel uh, you know, to make money.
Speaker 1:But then, at the same time, it's intensified because it's also an what I think and hope, in some instances an expression of me and my uniqueness and my view of the world and what I like and don't like. You get caught up in your own self to where these other people that you love and want to be with are an obstacle to that as well. So it's like this multi-plane friction, whereas you know, like the nuts and bolts of I have to make money, that requires time and attention and focus on these things, like using these tools, and when I have kids around, it creates an issue with that. When I have kids around, it creates an issue with that. But then I also have this what I think is a deeper need to make my life's work and express myself and, you know, have these experiences and have these opportunities and all this stuff, and those two things are just such a constant battle against the thing that matters most.
Speaker 2:It just, it just makes no sense. We're sitting here making a pod, like we've made almost 50 episodes about creating work, and it's like work, the at the at its most basic level, and you know this is a, obviously a maybe oversimplified um, it is oversimplified, but at its basic level.
Speaker 2:Humans walk around and we collect these points of interest that we think, and then it manifests itself in work yeah and we spend time working to express these things that we've come across, that we, these worldviews we have, and it's like, oh, I have to get this, I have to put this into my work so it can live beyond me, right? And then you know some people maybe they aren't speaking to that and so they go find somebody else's thing that has scaled to a level where they can plug into it and try to you know, try to be a part of that expression but, yeah, these are just ideas that you know a person had and you know, I mean, some of them are ideas that I do think transcend our spheres of whatever.
Speaker 2:I think some of the there are. There is such a thing as like an eternal idea. But yeah, a lot of, a lot of the work that a lot of that people are trying to do is just I found this thing. I think this thing is. This thing resonates with me. So my work is defined by my quest to disseminate that to the world. And you know who's to say that that is now, yeah, where does that rank in the grand scheme of importance?
Speaker 1:who's to say yeah, who am I to say? And if we were having like a four-hour episode, I would you know kind of break down what we do, right, I would talk about well, we have to procure resources in order to survive, we have to have shelter, we have to have food, we have to have this, we have to have that, and then in that process, during downtime, which now has all been centralized to this system of yeah, there's, you exist on this plane, of I don't know where this is.
Speaker 2:I'm listening to myself. I'm like this is so, like we're so dumb down a rabbit hole. This is ridiculous. But yeah, I mean. Yeah, you have to have money now to support your yes you have to have a.
Speaker 2:You know it's not just resources, but you have a place to live and you can't just go shelter, build a shelter in the middle of the fields, because now we've built a system and you have to be within that system, and then culture also layer on top of it that says well, you want to signal the correct thing, so you have to do it this way, that way, whatever, and that's what.
Speaker 2:I get at when I'm like there are rules yes, they might be man-made, it doesn't matter. I don't think we're going to change them. You can spend your whole life trying to change them and if you want to, then kudos. Likelihood is you're probably not and you're probably not and you're still gonna die the same death that everybody else dies. Um, and that sounds like the most pessimistic. You know, don't try to change it. I'm not. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that you have like, if that's what you want to do, you better make sure that's what you want to do. I think that's the question I ask with anything, that's what you want to do, you better make sure that's what you want to do. I think that's the question to ask with anything, that's what you want to do, you better make sure that's what you want to do. You know that my mom said it a few days ago and she said it kind of jokingly and but it there's truth in it. This isn't a dress rehearsal like, yeah, you're in and you're out right.
Speaker 2:Nobody knows what what's after that.
Speaker 1:So well and to, to wrap this up and just sort of like leave us with like a new thread to explore in some other time. But you know procuring resources, self-expression. So, you know, think about more primitive times, right telling stories, oral tradition, weaving, you know, blankets, cave paintings, you know all these things that we do to tell stories and express ourselves and make things that are a reflection of a vision that we have, a way we think we should do things whatever. And then you have your family, your kids. Right In those times when you had to go out and procure resources, your kids were watched by those who weren't out procuring resources aunts, cousins, siblings, elders, you know, whatever.
Speaker 1:We don't have that anymore. I don't have anybody that can watch my kids when I have to go procure resources that put food on the table, provide shelter, all of that stuff. So what are you left with? You're left with paying a stranger, essentially through a daycare program or a kids in company or whatever, and maybe they don't be, you know they. They elevate beyond the level of a stranger but it's just so counterintuitive.
Speaker 2:The market looks for what's best for the market, right, what's better? You have a person spending and earning right. Or you have a person that's post spending, yeah, that's then watching, and then you only have one person earning what's better?
Speaker 1:And so you talked about bring this full circle. You know our are the slivers of culture that we experience. You know you have the things that you consume, that you watch the ways you contribute to it. I have mine, I have mine, I have mine.
Speaker 1:I feel like we're also in these you know, the family unit, the nuclear family, are these you know, are these slivers of fragmented, of what used to be a whole thing a village, a large family structure, grandmas and grandpas, aunts, uncles, all of that stuff all contributing together and covering each other to make that system work.
Speaker 1:And when I think about a day like today where I'm like my wife needs to work, I have to work I also want to express myself, she wants time to express herself. But we have these kids and they have these issues and they have this stuff and it's taking away from those things not to say that those things didn't happen in simpler times, but um, yeah, I just look at that dynamic and go. It just feels wrong to be thinking about how do I get rid of my kids for eight hours a day? Yeah, so I can express myself and procure resources. Yeah, like my family. You know the people who don't have to do that right now. They should be the people I know and love should be taking care of that. But you know, my in-laws are still working.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know they're still jacked in anyway. It had been a golden afternoon and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summit.
