Studio Sessions
Discussions about art and the creative process. New episodes every other week.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
Studio Sessions
64. Attempting A Low-Stakes Space For Photography And Conversation: PART 1
We talk through the unexpected opportunity to create a photography exhibition space in Omaha's Old Market. The conversation covers how a casual connection through vintage reselling led to subletting a space for three months—low financial risk, no formal contracts, just the chance to experiment. We discuss rejecting the traditional gallery model entirely: no price tags, no sales pressure, just a place for photographers to gather, show work, and build community.
The episode explores the tension between excitement and anxiety that comes with actually doing something instead of just talking about it. We examine why this informal approach feels right—how the lack of commercial pressure creates freedom to experiment, try different exhibition ideas, and focus on creating experiences rather than moving product. The metaphysical alignment between collaborators, the value of physical gathering spaces, and standing at the threshold of something that could either fail quickly or turn into something unexpected. -Ai
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a rating and/or a review. We read and appreciate all of them. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.
Links To Everything:
Video Version of The Podcast: https://geni.us/StudioSessionsYT
Matt’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/MatthewOBrienYT
Matt’s 2nd Channel: https://geni.us/PhotoVideosYT
Alex’s YouTube Channel: https://geni.us/AlexCarterYT
Matt’s Instagram: https://geni.us/MatthewIG
Alex’s Instagram: https://geni.us/AlexIG
It had been a golden afternoon, and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with somebody, somebody else.
SPEAKER_01:Do this live. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure we'll have plenty of phone calls. Like I'm I've got to start going through photos and things like that.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah. And I think um if we talk about names at some point in the conversation, I'm totally down for that, but it's not with the intent that we're gonna figure it out. Um I I just started making a notes. I had like so I had such a long conversation with um oh nice. Yep.
SPEAKER_01:We made that right here. I I was two years ago at this time. I know, right? Or three years ago.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I I had reached out to the guy because I I really liked the idea, and and sorry for those listening and watching. Yeah, we'll see. We're gonna we're gonna get you up to speed, but I had reached out to I I really had loved the idea of getting our photos in a space that was sort of in limbo. It was up for lease, uh um, but it was rough. It could have had like it could have had like um move out debris left in there. It could have been a little dilapidated as long as there was obviously heat and amenities and stuff like that. But um I had reached out to the to the building. I don't know if it's somebody who owns it or whatever for the old I I think it's I don't know, I think it's donut stop on 13th Street. And like the guy just he like sent me a voice message back through Facebook and was just laughing about the idea of putting like a photo gallery in there. He was just like not yeah, he was like literally cracking up in the voice message of how dumb the idea was. And he is he is not someone I think that has any connection to the artistic world whatsoever. And so I didn't take offense to it.
SPEAKER_01:Yet the like 13 vintage clothing shops and like whatever on his street. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and we're talking about paying you to use your currently unoccupied building so we could have uh an interesting event.
SPEAKER_01:I'm pretty sure there's like an art gallery across the street. That's insane.
SPEAKER_02:So I thought that was funny, but but um, you know, of course, uh the the the desire um was there to a certain extent, and then you know, things get a little bit difficult and you bail on on the idea of really chasing it down.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and like the gallery, not to cut you off your thought, but we even thought about that gallery and um where is it? Like South O. Yeah. Um and I like I went and talked with that guy. That's right, he's a good guy, and the space is cool. But I started talking to him about doing a show, and quickly it became clear like this was gonna be his thing. Yep. Like he was like, Oh, well, I want to do this, and we can do this, and I can do and um I'm like that's awesome. And like I understand this is your space, so I have no say, but I was like, that's not what I want to do. That's not what what we have in mind, and this was probably after we started thinking about this a couple years ago. But so to get everybody up to speed with what we're talking about, uh and they'll have a little bit of context from the last episode. Right. Kind of maybe a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:You might remember better than I do.
SPEAKER_01:You like dropped it in there when we were going through resolutions or resolutions.
SPEAKER_02:Like just showing goals, showing work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then you said, like, oh, there might be a potential. Yeah, oh yeah, sorry. I hinted at it, and it was like and it was the first time you'd mentioned it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And it was like to be continued off camera, and I'll talk to you about what's going on. Uh I am notorious for having deep and in-depth context and exposition, so I'm gonna try to make this very quick. I have been working with this um uh guy, Josh, who is incredibly artistic and has amazing taste, and he has his whole life collected antiques and interesting things, and he's had little pop-up sales, and he has had a a uh physical space in the old market in Omaha for a few years now. And he has recently downsized, but he's still on the hook for the lease for the larger space of the two spaces he is leasing. And he recently moved a ceramicist in there who's a friend of his to take some of the burden of the remaining rent on the lease off his hands. And when the other person couldn't keep up with the space due to a little bit of a health complication that came up, it was going to be free for three to four months. And Josh wants to ideally be done with the space entirely when his lease runs up. So it just kind of connected to me. Well, this could be an opportunity, especially because I know the layout of the space and and all that. This could be an opportunity for us to do something that is a very small financial output to lease the space for two to three months, uh sublease the space, um and would kind of just be the perfect place, especially with Obed there and Josh having some of his um his furniture and glasswork and all that kind of stuff there, for us to merge the two things and show you and I showcase our work in a gallery exhibit um in that space. So I teased it to you in the podcast, then we talked about it off camera. Of course, you were immediately amped about it, and we set up a meeting with Josh and met with him yesterday to talk through how it could work, and that went really well. Yeah. I'll let you give your side of it.
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean, pretty much just the stars aligned and opportunity presented itself, and we kind of just jumped on it, and hopefully it I mean I I it I'm like 90 plus percent confident that this is probably gonna land. Like I've already started looking at work and now I'm like what that how the heck, you know, how do how do you curate something? You and I have all of these ideas of kind of what we want to do. We want really we really want it to be like a like a social environment, right? And we want to have events and like more of an event-based thing than a traditional galleries. Yeah, nine to five, the gallery or you know, ten to six or whatever the galleries open, come visit. Um but yeah, just kind of a a space for people to come hang out, have conversations. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And they're not to be like uh for me, like there's not like um it's not a it's not about the first thing isn't necessarily hey, look come look, welcome, look at my pictures, welcome, look at this pottery, welcome, look at this furniture. It's like, hey, we're gonna hang out, and oh yeah, there happens to be all this stuff here. You know, I've been to a few galleries where like the the prices are uh next to it and all that, and sort of like there's just this presence of the commerce aspect of it, and and from a kind of a good point of view, like I I would love to be able to financially contribute to my friends or fellow artists uh well-being and all of that stuff, but it's often you know something that is not terribly feasible, the prices for some of this, yeah, these photographs or artwork for me.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and yeah, I mean, a lot of times people see that and they're just like one, there's almost an expectation that you're gonna price it a certain way, but then you get there and it's like a lot of times the work isn't maybe there's an understanding of like where a a price or a market would come from for that work. Right. And so it's just putting a price on it to put a price on it, and then obviously people see that and they're like, Oh yeah, no, I'm not gonna pay that. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're kind of and then there's like there's just always a feeling of like I'm leaving empty-handed, and there's even if the artists or the people running the gallery couldn't care less, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like I just feel like you know Well, and that's one thing I've been thinking about a lot, and we'll we'll get into this later. I don't want to like hijack from where we are right now, but like what is the experience I want to give with the work that I choose because I want there to like I'll go into some galleries around. Not that every gallery needs to have like a through line or some kind of whatever or the exhibition, but spine of I want there to be something to kind of make you think because we do have a lot of galleries in Omaha hall that you uh you can walk through and okay, did that, moving on. Yeah. No, and no no disrespect, but you know, it's just like I want people to engage a little bit with like what is the art form. And I don't know if that like we have books in there, right? Kind of like with that Alex South exhibit did at the Jocelyn, where there was just a table and there were books on the table, yeah. And there were like I I you know we have a slide projector. Maybe you could curate your own slide. That's been an idea I've had and I've wanted to do for a long time. So I'm like already looking, like, okay, can I source some slides? Um have a table, light table. Yeah, how can I source a light table? Um, you know, or I even went to the Flamingo Gallery and there's the little slide. Um so I might go there and just or not the Flamingo Gallery, but the Flamingo store. Yep. And there's um the slide viewers. So I'm like, okay, maybe I could just be like, hey, I'll give you 50 bucks for all these slides and these viewers, and then we could set that up on a table. People could curate their own slideshows. I don't know what's possible. Yeah, but that's my mind is working in that direction of like, how can we make this a more uh uh engaging experience where you can come and kind of like broaden your experience with the art form of photography, right? What's possible? What you know, what you're gonna leave this, and then also just building that community. Like we talked about this was the biggest thing we were excited about is like we've seen it, we've seen like little bits and pieces peeking through of like, oh, there's a cool community here, yeah. Photography.
SPEAKER_02:And so it's like what happens when you open that and you're like, okay, here's a gathering post, and yep, a central place to have all of those people and their work and their philosophy and their approach to it um converge.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and remove the pretense, like right take away all of the anxiety and all of the you know expectation of you know a stuffy gallery environment and just let it be a s a creative space. Yeah. So I don't know, man. I'm I'm so excited about it. I it came, I was buzzing yesterday.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like I'm excited about it too, and I think you know, it hitting on all points for me, and not to not the the the financial part is um that that was probably always the biggest obstacle in my eye, like securing a space, um, especially if it was gonna be something like really formal, like, oh, you gotta sign here, and not that I'm opposed to that, but it's just like it creates a lot of weight on it that I think can sometimes obscure the there's something about like throwing it together, and uh not to imply that it's like shittily done or poorly planned, but like when it's your friend's space and he's like, Yeah, like throw me some cash and you can have access to it for three months, I'll make some keys for you, you know, like like that kind of setup just like takes all the pressure that that umbrella pressure of like the formality of it and just like it just makes it something easier.
SPEAKER_01:My head is already going to like, and I mean we don't have to get too far into this, but my head is already going to like okay, let's try to make this work. Like, we have a couple of months to kind of prove proof of concept, right? Right. And I'm like, man, if we can make this work, we could bring in some other artists, like create a little co-op kind of deal. And then like you we could even do it where it's you know, we're about to get into season for photography, right? And like that area, if you're shooting street photography in Omaha, that area is a you know how many times have we just gone down there on a Friday and walked around for hours? And I'm like, oh I can already see it, like you know, every Friday at five, we meet there and just have like a like fix a cup, a pot of coffee or like Saturday mornings or something, fix a pot of coffee. That's a central gathering place and a bathroom. I don't have to like jack the scooter's bathroom coat anymore, right? Um and that's like a place, and you know, whoever can show up, show up. We meet there, we go walk around a little bit, finish there, and you know, I don't there's just a lot of possibilities that I can see. I'm not saying that that has to be what it is, but um just the the collaboration aspect is yeah, exciting to me, the possibility for that, or you know, just creating a central place for this this community. Yep. It seems like every every thriving community or subculture has that like gathering place. Like even like workshop right next door is it's kind of the gathering place for that community in Omaha.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Um with what they've been able to do, it's like inspire. I'm like, I want to do that with photography. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And those guys, um, Stefan and Trey, don't do a lot of events at workshop like at night after hours, but they do several of them at their other shop in Ixarbon Village called A priori. And you've been to that on here, yeah. And I went to their anniversary party recently. Um and it was just it's just great. You know, they have a DJ, like Josh was there. Um, I met a bunch of new people. One kid who's a photographer um and uh has a bunch of cameras, both film and uh digital, uh mostly shooting Fuji. But and then the other vintage clothing kids, like it's just cool. And it's like one kid was 19, you know, I'm the old guy, 46, you know, but like I'm not like somebody's math teacher showed up to, you know, the the thing, the thing. And it just feels great. Like yeah. So um the idea to be able to do that around the things that interest you and I most and the people that we know, not as closely as each other, but we know they're hungry for that connection and community as well.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, it's everything we've talked about for the last like three years, dude, just like physical space, right? Interacting in person, like yeah, the photos go on the wall. Yep. And you know, people if people join, it's like you can see the process of like, okay, it starts here and then it ends here. Yep. But it's all like the only thing that you're going out and you're doing this for, like, yes, the self-exploration and the you know learning and interfacing with the world, but then also just like sharing with an audience, yes. Having a community around it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I have been really fortunate in getting involved with Joshua Shop and doing um, you know, like vintage treasure hunting to bring to Josh's shop or to resell, uh, like I've talked about before, to build a lot of community with the other vintage kids. And most of them um are young guys. There's a few women that I've met who are doing it. And I just saw one of them today at the thrift store and we chatted for a while. Um, and there are a couple, you know, stores. There's workshop, there's Josh's shop, there's 1404 Collective down on 13th Street and, you know, and it's a few other places. And one of my favorite things during the week is when I go down to bring stuff into Josh's shop, or I'm just hanging out there on the weekend, and all those kids are around. Yeah. Um, you know, Liam's working over at Workshop, Stefan and Trey are there, or one of them's there. Um they come, you know, one or two of them come into Josh's just to say what's up. And you just but the the best thing about it, and I, you know, I'm talking about this because I'm I'm hopeful that this space can do something similar for people that are interested in art and photography, um, conversations about that stuff, like we talk about, is you know, like Liam will go through the stuff he found. And like he's like, I got this on Depop, or I found this at the thrift store. And there's not one bit between all of us of like animosity that they found a cool thing, or they have a like a different approach to their style. Yeah, and they're all like into it, like they're repairing clothes. Liam's working at artifact, this kid's like learning about true, like it's just really inspiring to be around it. I really want that for our kind of our world. And we have our dinner in a movie crew, which is like around cinema and movie going, so we have you know a taste of it there, yeah. But like I also want to get this aspect of it.
SPEAKER_01:Something that's a little more just like yeah, a little a little more grounded in the work, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Just the energy of like creating things, and showing each other like you have with me. Have you seen this guy's work? He's on Instagram or this is his book or um his YouTube channel, you know, like chopping it up with what everybody is consuming and seeing and finding out there and sharing it with each other.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm already my brain's like, what's possible? Like, like you know, local photographers and like obviously doing talks and things, just but taking it from the approach of yeah, building and there there are things like this in Omaha. Like I don't want it to be like, oh, we're the only ones, or nobody's ever thought of this. Like, there have been other attempts, but everything kind of has this at least everything that I've seen, and I could be I could be wrong, but it has this like it either feels very like closed off in a way. Like I'm thinking about the the mansion in in um Blackstone. Right. And there's the gallery in there, and which we haven't been to in years. Yeah. And I mean, I even had the uh opportunity to like join the but it just has this kind of vibe to it of like um what's the what's the college here? The um like the community college or whatever? Uh oh um metro community college. Metro, it has that like like metro kind of vibe. I don't I don't know. Maybe I'm maybe I'm completely mis misjudging it. Yeah. It just it doesn't feel like a place where you go and you just like I I you and I have a very clear kind of vision of what we want. We've talked about it for years, and I haven't personally I haven't found that yet. And so I'm like, okay, if you can't find it at a certain point, yeah, just do it. Right. You know, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but and I think that's the beauty of stuff like this, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Everything everything that I not everything I make, but what I make is a lot of the thought is I'm not seeing what I want to see out there, so I'm gonna make. It myself. And that doesn't mean that the stuff out there isn't good. It's just I'm like, I kind of like flavor. Yeah, I kind of like that and a little bit of this. And it could be everything from just a piece of content like a YouTube video or uh, you know, the the uh the a photographic style, a vibe, a tone. Um, my photography channel that I made, even though it's you know, it's it's part content, part the work is something that I was craving on YouTube. I'm like, I just I want I love when the photographers talk, but I kind of want a bunch of videos where they just let you lose yourself in the environment. And the only person that made something that was, and this is part of the inspiration for it, was Alex Soth. He has that video like uh Summer Nights at the Dollar Tree, or I I don't I'm getting the top.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, the the moving photography project. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um and when I saw that, I went, oh, you can do something like this. And so then I was like, well, you know, it wasn't long enough. Um it didn't mix photo and video quite as much as I would like to, and you know, just sort of crafted this thing out of it. And the point being, you know, that's what's gonna end up happening with this, is both of us coming at it with ideas um without judgment and saying, how do we craft this thing together to be an experience that we both enjoy leading? Um, we enjoy sort of giving up if other people come in and want to showcase their work or set up things their way. Um and and just make something that's bigger and different than what we've made up to this point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I mean, also just inspiring to like make work too. There's nothing bad on a very personal and selfish level, there's nothing better than having than being on the hook for something. Like obviously, we're building this thing, but then also, you know, both of us have space to fill in there. There's nothing more inspiring to like push you towards new work. Right. It's like like I remember when I when I first got into photography, and like this is where I like I hate, I fucking hate social media. But I mean, I I you know, I don't know if I'm where I am with photography now, if it's not for like Instagram or something in 2000 and 2013 or 14. And so, you know, I've I just have to be careful. Every everybody has an entry point, everybody has it's like and um yeah, I mean, this is uh killing that, yeah, you know, for a lot of good reason. I I felt like I I needed to kill that, but like it's exciting to have a place to just put things and like try things, yeah. You know, yep, display. Um and is I think for me it's a different way to see um I like having this on camera too, by the way, because if you know, if this fails, well then cool. This is all this is here. And like that was kind of the thing is Matt, I was we were leaving, I was like, Matt, worst case scenario, we get to be like in 10 years. Remember that time we tried to try to do a gallery?
SPEAKER_02:And and that we have it documented, the attempt or talking about attempting it on this, which is what I love about doing this, is yeah, it's you know, it captures this unique little sliver of time here, especially this current state that we're in of excitement. Um, you know, for me, admittedly, a little not like full-blown fear, but just sort of like what if when I see all my photographs hanging on a wall, I like panic. Yeah or um oh I probably will, but or like holy shit, like I you know, I that I have a whole new thing I have to put together and do. Um what I love about it though is with it being not feeling like this big formal thing, it feels like it's this thing that just sort of came about organically, like that half fell into our lap, but then also like we were poised to pounce if something came up. Yeah. Um I just don't feel any pressures from anybody. It's not like we submitted our work to some other gallery and like they want us to hit certain sales numbers to earn, you know, like all this kind of stuff. It is whatever the fuck we want.
SPEAKER_01:It is completely whatever we want. Yeah, and that we literally we doubled down on that last night or yesterday afternoon walking, walking around. We were just like, this is exactly how it needed to be. Yep. And it makes me glad that I I mean I'm not saying like don't pursue things, but it I never pursued something really aggressively because I I and I don't know, it's just like ah, this will work out. Yeah, not saying that this is gonna be the thing, but it's like this is good as good an opportunity as any to do the the the gallery display. You know, that's not I don't even know if it's a gallery. It's like partial partially a gallery. Yeah. It's like we just wanna we I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:For me, it's like I want to take the sort of the central idea of a gallery, which for me is a place where an artist showcases their work. Yeah, but take like the showcase aspect out, or sort of like the the um the uh the the the sort of inorganic nature to of it. It's sort of a presentation, like it's just has so much more formality to it. Yeah. And I want I I you know, you know, it's like like if I sat you down to tell you about this awesome new piece of software, and it actually was good, and you would would see value in it. Like if I called you and said, Hey, let's meet at six, we're gonna talk about this thing, and then I'm gonna just like lay it out for you. It's a whole other thing where we run into each other at a coffee shop, we have 30 minutes of conversation, something you say makes me connect it to this thing, and then it comes up organically and it unfolds in a way where by the end you're really excited about that thing that I was talking about. And I feel like that's what the that's a similar thing with this versus hey Alex, um, let's get you at six o'clock. Um, I've got or uh I've got appointments available Tuesday at two and eight o'clock. Which one works best for you?
SPEAKER_01:Great, I'll send you the calendar. And I understand like the formality in a lot of a lot of places is a response to like chaos, right? Formality is a way to control things, like processes are and I don't think that's what we're talking about here. No, yeah. Just to make that distinction very clear, like we understand. I mean, you're talking to like two pretty type A people, yeah. So I think there's an understanding of process and formality, and a huge respect for it. But yeah, we just don't want that that uh yeah like pre-existing set of expectations or set of and set of structures that are maybe not completely relevant to what we're trying to do.
SPEAKER_02:And I think those structures are, you know, this this is me just thinking off the top of my head pretty good. It's like really killing right now. Is uh you know, the the commercial edifice that exists with a gallery. Someone is owns or is renting a space and they have decided for a business that they're going to host artists who exhibit their work with the intention that people will view it, learn about the artist, take the next step with the artist, commission a piece of work, buy a piece of work that the gallery, you know. I don't know all the intricacies of how you know what the the deals are between the artist and the gallery, but there's obviously a money aspect of it.
SPEAKER_01:The business model is definitely there's a business model there and it's sales. Yeah. Sales and commission. Yeah. And that's the that's the structure. It's not it's not like if there, if there was a a goal at the you know, like a marquee goal, it's not promoting ideas, and which is kind of what we're interested in. Yeah, it's make make X amount, and then maybe it's promoting ideas, or and again, this isn't a criticism of that.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, it it's that's something that exists, and we want this other thing to exist. Yeah, and we have an informality and low stakes opportunity to experiment rather than you know, oh shit, Alex, we're on the hook for four grand, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we gotta make our money back. Yeah, 100%. And then it does take over to where it's like, all right, Obed, get your stuff in there, Josh. You your bet your best furniture that you've got. Yeah. Um, because we're gonna get a cut because we're gonna man the shot. And then Alex, like, get the biggest prints, the best frames, everything you can think of.
SPEAKER_01:It's so funny how this is kind of the polar opposite of what you've been contending with. Yeah. That's why I like it so much.
SPEAKER_02:I don't have to, it's like a low risk. I mean, you know, it's gonna cost us, you know, in the hundreds of dollars, and who knows about prints and frames and all that.
SPEAKER_01:But I'm like, it's it's I just kind of a couple thousand bucks, uh worst case scenario kind of thing, and it's like, you know. What yeah, like where this is the old market. This is people are paying ridiculous amounts for real estate there. It's like a good opportunity. I don't know. I but not making about money. It is funny. It is it is the complete opposite of like what you're you've been contending with, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Where you've been completely concerned about that commerce versus art, and it's yes. Now you have an opportunity where it's almost like, okay, the commerce aspect is removed. Let's focus on the art.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it's um it's a it's a big relief. Uh I it's not a piece of content, it's not a channel, it's not um you know, an affiliate commission, it's none of that stuff. Honestly, like you said, like I'm not even like like you said about not putting like um uh a purchase, yeah, the the prints or whatever aspect to it. I you know, was thinking about it last night. I'm like, yeah, you know, if someone asked, I'd be like, oh well, let me figure it out. Yeah, yeah. But I would be perfectly fine with the low stakes of this financially to just oh, well, this wasn't about that. I'm flattered that you like want to buy a print. Like I'm I'm flattered that. This is about this, like hanging, but um, you know, and and who knows if it if it we were surprised that something about that experience that you created, like yeah, I don't know, just I'd be stoked if Josh and Obed did really well from it, yeah. Let alone, you know, uh as opposed to us. I think too, there's you know, for me personally, and maybe not for you, but there's a little bit of uh it's not imposter syndrome, it's sort of like who the who the fuck am I to show my stuff in a space, you know?
SPEAKER_01:I mean that's I get that feeling when I see most people's photography. I'm just like, how do you get to that point where you're like but I do want, and that's I think that's the biggest reason why I don't want to price it. Yeah, because then it's I mean, it's just like you're not paying for it. Yeah, you're just experiencing it. I'm trying different things, yeah. You're experiencing those things, and that's kind of where I like it. And I mean, you know, I d I also just not introducing the commerce aspect up front is yeah, is I I just want to see what that looks like. Yep. And I I yeah, I think the the the because my my goal, I like ideal scenario would just be like this is a place where people come to try things. It's not like because once you start selling things, the work that gets displayed is not gonna be based on what's interesting to you, right? Or what's most like you know, you know, I yeah, you're trying to do that. They do better. So I'm gonna do a landscape. You know, happen to do a collection of landscapes, and there might be a through line, but it's not as interesting as this idea that you had. So I'm like, let's pull that. Yep. Like if like in this particular instance, we do have the blessing to pull that.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Fuck it. Let's pull that. Let's just try different stuff. Like we have it for a couple of months. It's like, you know, is that two exhibitions? Is that three? Like, what do time scales look like? How the fuck am I gonna display these things?
SPEAKER_02:Like, I got plenty of problems to worry about that aren't what I'm excited about for this for me being um I don't you know I don't have uh you know a significant financial resource to like really get um spend some money on like an uh like a really nice way to present it, like with every frame being the same, some high quality frame maker from you know this place or that place. Uh you know, I I am I I am gonna take these limitations and scrape something together. It could be thrift store frames, it could be uh it could be no frames at all. I don't know what it'll be, but uh I'm excited about having those limitations um self-imposed to come up with something. Um I thought about thrift store frames. Yeah, I I just don't know if I have any other option personally because I know I can't drop you know a thousand bucks on high-end frames for 20 pictures, you know, especially if you're not selling them directly immediately. And that's the other thing too. I'm like, I kind of don't want to spend a bunch of money on it because then I worry that it'll create this conscious or subconscious pull towards commercifying it.
SPEAKER_01:I one idea I had, and we're we're gonna have to we'll just make this two episodes, like part one, part two. Okay. Um if you're okay with that. Yeah, totally. Because I think we still have a bunch of creative ideation to do. So I think it'd be nice. It's like the the formality and the creative.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I had the thing I was uh planning on talking about, or one thing I'm talking about to touch on as well.
SPEAKER_01:So Okay. So I mean the one idea I had with the frames though was like just doing like very utilitarian frames that kind of get beat up as you go. Yeah. And you know, maybe it's a one-time thing. Um obviously you want something that's gonna wear well. Like you don't want like the beautiful black frame because then it's not gonna wear well. But yeah, I just I like kind of part of me likes the idea. You know, I mean, I love things that patina. Absolutely. I thought I like things that get beat up, but take it well. Yeah. Like, I mean, yeah, you you're you know, you're talking about things that have um that have in that grow in value because they're they're able to take the wear. We've talked about it a thousand times on this podcast. Um and I I almost like the idea of like what kind of frame could I get that I could just beat up over time? Right. It's like, oh yeah, they've used the same frames for you know, ten years. Yep. I don't know. That's the only idea I had. And then it's at least it's a one-time investment. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Rather than I mean, I've thought of hanging from like steel braided wire, I've thought about um just tacking them to the wall. I've thought about um you know, finding nice frames at estate sales and thrift stores and framing things more traditionally with a mat and all that. I've also thought like there's a ton of cheap thrift store frames with the paper back. Just flip it around and stick the picture on the paper back and hang that on the, you know, hang it on the wall backwards, you know. Yeah, you know, so just so all kinds of ideas. And there's a way to do it incredibly inexpensively. And I know that I'm gonna try to find this marriage of that's really interesting and damn cheap. Yeah. Yeah. Um that's how most good things start. I think I think I'll be able to scrape it together that way. Um if you're cool with me just talking about the thing I was gonna talk about, just so I can check that off so it's not in the back of my head. This isn't like some big profound thing or anything. It's just uh we'll come back in part two with creative. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is just uh I talked a little bit about this in a video I was working on, but it's mostly just sort of um it came up the the the idea came about because of the the Leica 3F project that I've been documenting on the the photography YouTube project I've got going on where I you know picked up a Leica at an estate sale. I got a second one to get the lens from it. I just listed that that Leica, the 2F. I have a 3F. This is the 2F on eBay to recoup some of that cost. I bought a 35 millimeter Sumeran lens uh and and all that to get the Leica all set up to take.
SPEAKER_03:Like go the hard way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so I sat there in the video talking about okay, well, the camera's together, you've got everything, the base thing that you need to go out and now do it. And so it's like, oh shit. Like, you know, and there's this just this idea that like, well, the photos I've been managing in my head that I'm gonna take with it because I think I'm gonna use this film stock and I'm gonna go to this place, and like yeah, I'm walking through it in my mind. Those photos are probably way better than the ones I'm actually gonna take for the first time.
SPEAKER_01:It's that I mean we've talked about that urge a hundred times where it's yeah, the number one pull of uh consumer like consumer culture is look what I'm gonna do when I'm venting.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And then, you know, what have I done historically to sort of um delay the launch because of you know the fear that what I end up experiencing making it and then what I actually make ends up just being disappointing or not what I thought, or you know, this or that. The point being now the camera's done, and next is the the action is required. Yeah. It's this sort of interesting state of excitement, inspiration, fear, hesitation, um, you know, all those things mixed together. And even though this isn't official, we haven't paid for anything, we haven't shook hands, we haven't signed the dotted line, I am in a similar state with this. Like, oh shit, like this is probably gonna happen and you're gonna put it together. I will say that there's probably because you're involved that it's a shared undertaking.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, the anxiety's not on your shoulders.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like it's not on you to go out and do it and battle your demons to overcome, you know, your bullshit that's makes you I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do you know, I'll edit these photos later, you know, all that kind of crap that puts it off. But yeah, it it it it's interesting to sort of stand at uh at that at that threshold between. Life before this was possible, or even a thought, and then life after this, especially if like what if this like turned into something? Yeah. Yeah. Like, what if it be like, oh, you guys gotta keep going? Like, if we lost the space, you guys gotta find a new space to keep it going, or like, you know, or we saw obviously we can't just like front.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we're not just throwing it.
SPEAKER_02:We're not just gonna like dump thousands of dollars into something that's completely until everybody has like a great place to hang out and talk about photography.
SPEAKER_01:But but I also if if you and I need to figure out a business model that isn't based on selling photographs, yeah. I'm confident that we could try to do that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Or if it was cool enough.
SPEAKER_01:If there was enough interest.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there was a way to crowdsource, you know, the the coverage of the expenses or something. And anyway, there's there's all kinds of stuff that's gonna happen. But like the the other thing too with Josh and Obed, like I'm just kind of standing there going all these people like kind of know, like have really good instincts and sort of like they like they work off of instinct and they sort of like know something when they see it. And it just feels weird that everybody's kind of like and I know we had didn't have Obed in the room with us, but just even in me speaking to him, seeing his artwork and all that stuff, I'm like, I kind of feel like everybody's on the same page metaphysically, and yeah, this is gonna work out. Yeah, like you, I would have never thought it would have worked as well with Josh like coming into a shop and putting stuff in there, but he's like, I don't know, man, it just works. I'm like, yeah, there's no friction, the shit sells. Yeah. People love the shop, and again, m the most of it's Josh, but you know, I know I'm bringing something to the table, especially that keeps that keeps. Yeah, it's fun. Anyway, so uh to wrap up the point, the with the Leica project and getting ready to shoot, the the fear element is a little more substantial. With this, it's sort of like there's almost like it the with the Leica thing, it's almost like a fear that what I make sucks. With this, it's almost like a fear that what we do ends up being so fucking awesome. But the short-term aspect of our access to the space and the informality of the arrangement that we're going to have, like we're gonna that's gonna get terribly high that we're gonna be able to do that. Well, it's gonna be like uh the like the clock striking midnight and Snow Whites, you know, back to being in the attic of our shitty stepmother's house, you know, like oh yeah, there's nothing, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Like we made this awesome thing, but it's I I the way I look at it is like all we can do is like run it. Yeah. And yeah, kill it's like maybe that, maybe yeah, it's we we have this insane experience and it goes back to oh there's something too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, maybe this is the start of something cool. There's something too about it being short term where it's like where there's there's just this feeling for me of like we gotta like blow it out.
SPEAKER_01:Gotta take this, yeah, very seriously. Well, and because what excites me most, like, I think the most lively time, like for what I could see for the space and just for like the community is summer. Yeah. Right? Like, that's when it's like, yeah, let's meet up with some guys, or like, and guys is obviously like guys, girls, whatever. Let's meet up with some people and hang out and go walk around and yeah, have this gathering spot. And you know, it's if Josh is, yeah, I'll hang out at the shop or whatever, and leave the door unlocked, people can go sit and grab a water or whatever, go back out, walk around. That's exciting to me. Or like, yeah, we hit it up on a Saturday morning, or I don't know. Just the possibilities of it's kind of what I've always wanted when I'm out shooting. So I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what it'll turn into, but I mean it it's funny how it all kind of everything collides. Yeah. And like you and Josh, or you and just vintage in general, or just I mean, this started out with like typewriters and old cameras and slowly evolved into like, oh yeah, I'll pick up some shirts here and then.
SPEAKER_02:Well started with you, it started with you moving to Omaha.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, well, it's and then me getting introduced to you through Cody. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then obviously everything in your life that led up to what you brought to the table in coming here and and same here, but just having similar interests though.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, obviously something clicked with us where we, you know, we're just like, oh yeah, I like that person. I'm gonna hang out with that person and just how we've inspired each other, and then it all leads to this cool thing that becomes possible out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_02:And that's kind of what I was just talking about with Josh and even Obed is again seeing as well.
SPEAKER_01:I like how you how you phrased it. You're like, everybody's on the same metaphysical and that's kind of what I mean.
SPEAKER_02:Like when you meet people and you're like, I don't feel like there's any bullshit happening here.
SPEAKER_01:I know people will roll their eyes. But it's like, oh man, this is like destined to happen. Right, right. And you know, maybe, maybe not. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Uh you know, I haven't sat down and updated my uh thoughts on destiny, but but but it's and that's you know, I I had um I was using um Chat GPT as a thesaurus last night and trying to come up with um ideas for what this could be called, and I kept circling the idea of like that sort of impossible intersection between the photographer and the subject in a street situation, especially if you take a photograph that is really powerful. Like it's fucking impossible that you were right there when this thing happened, and you and not only that you were right there, but that you knew to raise the camera to your face and in that decisive moment um take the picture and get it. Um and I, you know, without getting like super hokey and all that stuff, like I don't know. I've been around people enough and collaborated on stuff that's very commercial, you know, it's a paid gig and all this stuff, and other stuff that was like, you know, just a bunch of friends getting together and making stuff. You have enough of those experiences, and you're around enough people, fellow artists, people that are scraping by, trying to figure this out, trying to hustle their way uh into screenwriting or photography or vintage reselling, whatever it is, you hone your senses of the people that feel right for you, and it doesn't, you know, like there's for everybody. Yeah, there are people out there that don't that don't meld with me in the right way, but they might meld in amazing ways with somebody else. Um and yeah, when you can kind of be around people, and it doesn't mean like you go out for coffee all the time and like and you're as as you know close as you and I are, yeah. But if you can have that free flow, um when it comes to doing something together, making something together, you can be open, you can you know be vulnerable, you can um that doesn't mean you're all crying on each other's shoulders, but you can just like lay it out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's even if you're being diplomatic and there's a creative necessity, like creativity almost like necessitates that energy. Right. And you really have to I mean, like a good a good way to think of it is yeah, you've got to be willing to be naked in front of people. And some like the only way you're gonna do that is if you're comfortable with the person. Right. And but it again, it like you said, it doesn't, it's not necessarily a closeness, yeah, but it's just like an expectation. Like it's and it has to be set at the beginning. Yeah. The very beginning of the relationship is when you set that expectation of like, hey, nothing is off limits here. Yeah. In a in the I mean that in a bet in a good way. Like nothing is nothing is gonna cause some kind of reaction or flare up. Yep. Like it's all open. Yeah. We're just trying to get from point A to point B.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And that that's like there's like this surrender to the thing that is being made rather than um, you know, someone's ego or someone's bullshit just like using people as a tool to get them what they want. And that's that's what I feel. More than Josh wants money to cover the space. He just, I mean, he has said it over and over again. He's like, I just want something really fucking cool to be in there. He wants the energy to be right. I don't want it to turn into some lame corporate dumb thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it being a golden afternoon, and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with this summary.
