71. What If Success Is The Unmeasurable Part?

We open with a 93-year-old woman who ran an oil pump valve repair business and a boutique until she was nearly 100, and what her life says about the post-WWII metrics we've organized our sense of security around — the 401k, the house, the college fund, the car in the driveway. We dig into EM Forster's observation that the novel is sogged with humanity, and what happens to a life when the humanity gets exercised out of it in favor of the spreadsheet.

That leads us to a visit with a former fighter pilot and lawyer in Plattsmouth — a man with signed baseballs, original paintings, a wall of 14,000-foot summits, and no visitors. We talk about legacy anxiety, what it means when your life's work has nowhere to go, and why the things that actually give this sliver of time any quality are exactly the things that resist being measured. We end somewhere near the question AI keeps raising: why are you doing this in the first place, and what happens if the answer isn't good? -Ai

Transcript

A Working Life Without Retirement

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I was 93 years old, was running a boutique and a valve, a uh oil pump valve repair business. She's been doing the oil oil pump repair since 1976. And she's again 93 years old and worked until you know, up until she passed away. I think she passed away when she was 98. And like this video shows her in the literally showing uh a 40-something year old man like how to repair this valve properly, you know. This old woman, yeah. And the guy gives commentary, you know, in the interview about how he was just blown away at her knowledge. Like she can literally do this blindfolded. Um and so she, you know, she's she's just it's just was like a given that she was gonna do this. She started this boutique because she wanted to, I don't know, it's just something she wanted to do. So part of this space that she has is these, you know, beautiful, like sort of mint green painted shelves with all these different items. She sourced silver platters and teacups and all, you know, or you know, uh formal service trays from you know a long time ago. She makes her own one-off custom children's clothes, hand sewn, every last bit of it by her. Um, obviously with sourced fabrics, but she's combining patterns and colors and all that stuff, and even did some women's blouses. And uh I, you know, I look at that and I just go, yeah, I mean, I'm just gonna be working, you know, uh my whole life. Now she says she loves doing these valve repairs, you know, it's something she's loved being able to do and doing, earned a living doing it. How great of a living, I don't know. But I watch that and I go, do you think she has a 401k and a retirement account? Is she no? Her retirement account is working. She just works, maybe she makes$30,000 a year, lives modestly, whatever. But like, is she doing something wrong? I don't think so, but I think some people would, you know, if they were maybe integrated with her uh in a in a marriage or whatever, and were earning more than her or felt they had personal fears or pressures that they place on themselves, and then they place it on a spouse because they're part of the solution to those fears, anxieties, and pressure. Well, you're not doing enough, or you're not doing, but for that person, they're literally like, I pay my bills, I should do this, you know, like I well, it's interesting too.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

I think you almost the more you work, you kind of outsource your abilities to do something that maybe you don't completely align with, the more you rely on kind of getting a little bit on the back end.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

And so you start to build out that expectation of like I need these reward systems to keep me from being like you know, emotionally distraught, right? Yeah, I need to be able to go out to dinner, I need to be able to drive a nice car, I need to be able to, you know, uh have the social uh approval of you know, sending my kids to a good school or doing this or doing that. Like obviously there's benefits there, but it's just like we've we've almost built this idea of of the world where you I mean, yeah, you can't just exist and not spend money. Like if you exist in the in the world today, you've got you, you know, you're you're cash is going out every day. Yep. Just to exist in the world. There's no like, oh, I spent$200 last month. Like you've got cash is going out. Like you if you want to, you know, we we're just going to look at photos on Friday.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah.

When Spending Becomes The Baseline

SPEAKER_04 4:37

And it's like, oh well,$30 in tickets, I'm sure you know you you you oh well cash bar. I want to do this, I want to do dinner, da da da. So yeah, you you just there's almost just this ex expectation that it's yeah, it's disgusting. It is kind of a disgusting thing. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, what do you expect when you've when you build that in? And obviously, yeah, you've got this, and and then we look at people who can't do that as like some kind of lesser right. Like, oh well, they can't figure this out, or they can't do this, and like I make X amount of money at my job, and I can do this, and I drive a Mercedes, and da da da, and it's like but I'm not I'm not dogging on that or what like yeah, I just think it's it's an interesting kind of dilemma we've created for ourselves where we have to keep feeding it, and what you describe is rarer and rare because it's hard to just, you know, find enough satisfaction in life where you can not buy into all of those things. It's a lot easier to be like, oh well, I just need this to be able to scratch this itch or this to be able to and now we're just finding itches all the time. It's like you know, just constantly looking for some new hobby or new thing to suck our time and money into. Yep. And I think um that's the rebel in you, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

I mean yeah, uh in a um and sort of I think you're right.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

I think you're the like the intent is right.

Art, Money, And The Sellout Fear

Social Pressure And Parenting Expectations

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, and I mean uh uh you know, I think kind of going I I I think when I articulate how I feel about stuff like that, you know, it's there there are some people that you know think of it as absurd. Like it is crazy to think that you're not allocating every resource you have toward, you know, building this college fund for your kids and retirement fund for yourself and and and all of that stuff. And you know, I I certainly understand the pressure and the the reality of those being incredible tools to not only create security for yourself and even prosperity, but for your family as well. And um, you know, had I gone on a different path where, you know, I I you know, I I I was on a path where that wasn't going to happen pretty much from the start. Uh, you know, I you know ended up being in a fine arts program for undergraduate and graduate school. And while there are plenty of people who find prosperity through the arts, uh it's not easy for most people who do. And um having an interest in acting and screenwriting, photography, content creation, all of that stuff, there are certain things I struggle with that I know could make me more money. And uh and we've talked about it a lot, you know, the intersection of commerce and art, you know, sort of selling out, or especially in the form of content creation, you know, just make making videos to sell people stuff or to to inspire people to or persuade people to to buy things and you know, the the struggle that I have with the conflict of interest that uh, you know, I'm in personally enriched, the more people buy and and all of that stuff. So um, so it's tough. And uh I don't know what the answer is, but just to wrap up the point that started this thread, you know, I watched that woman in that video, and while it's heartwarming to someone that um is sort of in the system and feel you know, getting that 401k nice and flush and making their investments and doing all the things that they're supposed to do to be productive and prosperous and feel secure and all that stuff, I look at that and just go, that's my security. It's just I'm gonna work forever. I want to. And um maybe I make a similar amount that sh this woman makes, and I live modestly, um, don't want that much. I don't need a fancy car, I don't need a big house, I don't need um the state-of-the-art home theater system and all this stuff. Um so, you know, uh I find some peace in in that. But when you live with other people or other people are close to you and they see what you're capable of or your potential, or sort of how they might benefit if you just kind of tow the line, it can be very difficult for them to understand what you're doing and not doing. It's tough. And I feel like with what you read to me, there isn't there is a parallel to that. I mean, I know I made the point with this idea of the absurd and making, you know, my interpretation of what you read to me, making work from sometimes a a place of absurdity. Um I do think, you know, people from that time grappled with sort of this rigid formality and expectations and the way you dress, the way you look, the things you had, everything from people that touched the aristocracy to people who touched the upper class. Um this idea of occupying a state of absurdity to make work, to make art, had to be very difficult to sort of um to let go of all of that control and formality and precision and craft and technical and all of that stuff to just make something. Um could be a misinterpretation of what you read, but that at least was my takeaway. And uh I certainly have felt not necessarily because what I make is art, but I think how I live my life. There are some people that just can't understand the choices I make. It just doesn't make sense in the context of the greater system of what people are supposed to do.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

I feel like it probably only gets worse too as you get like this so this isn't true for all people who have like, you know, teenagers or whatever, but like you, you know, you'll have a teenager soon. And it's like once you've been a parent for X amount of years at least in my experience, what I've seen is you like the people that kind of group around you because of school events or because of, you know, just you've almost it's just harder to push back against when a certain like category of your social circle is consumed with that idea that that is the only way. And I'm not saying like obviously there's plenty of people, there's plenty of you know, bohemian like that have had kids and have had teenagers and have had but you know I'm thinking in in terms of like you know, neighborhood community, school, yeah, like and I don't mean this in a disrespect disrespectful way towards a group of people, but like the average, like the the the average of like people and you know, council bluffs sending their kids aren't are gonna look at decisions you make and be like, I don't understand what what records or like what art or like I'm a I'm a I'm a accountant and this is I've been at this for you know twenty-five years and I've got you know four hundred dollars a month goes into the 401k and I've never missed it, and it's just a worldview mismatch. Yeah. And but then you're also getting hit with that pressure because that is building the like you I've I've said this before where it's like you are the people that you spend the most time with. Well, your ambitions or your expectations are also a byproduct of that. And I'm not saying you spend the most time with these people, obviously you don't, but it just permeates itself into that family unit in a way that I don't know, it's interesting to contend with. I don't know how you go about contending with that.

Humanity Versus Spreadsheet Success

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Well, you sent me this quote, and I'm gonna adapt it to this scenario a little bit because I thought about it while you were saying all of that. Um this might seem a little out of left field, but I'll bring it home.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

What what's the date? Is it uh 1927? Was that the yeah? Okay, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

And this is from what is it from? EM Forster. Yeah. Uh the intensely stifling human quality of the novel is not to be avoided. The novel is sogged with humanity. There is no escaping the uplift or the downpour, nor can they be kept out of criticism. We may hate humanity, but if it is exercised, exorcised, or even purified, the novel wilt. Little is left but a bunch of words.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

That's a great that is a great little combination of, yeah. And when I think about it in the context of this literally 99 years. And you I don't like I don't think an a better idea could be applied to a lot of the things that we're dealing with today.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

And maybe the way that I'm gonna take this and adapt it to what we're talking about here is maybe it's a stretch or you know, whatever, but just hear me out. Or no stretches.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

The um once it's once it's on the page, it's ours to do whatever we want with it, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

And not not to attribute it or misattribute it, but definitely to you know, I I've come, you know, there's certain people that I've come across, and whether it's family members or friends or whatever, and very fixated on, you know, sort of the metrics of success. The house, debt-free, retirement, college accounts, kids in these schools, these kind of cars in the driveway.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

And these are the metrics also just like these are only these are very recent mess metrics, right? This is like a 65 to 80 year culmination of post-World War II, basically. Yeah, this is not this isn't like uh deeply ingrained in our in our animalistic nature set of metrics.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well, you know, Bernays knew what he was doing when he when he when he when he got everything rolling in the what the twenties and thirties. Yeah. But um I mean really post-World War II, yeah. And so let's say my my wife, you know, it looks at another family and sees all these metrics of success. Um, but there's a possibility that the marriage is loveless. Um the relationship with the kids are strained because a parent or the parents are not really listening to who they are, what they want, the things that they want for their lives, even if they're little and they're just trying to process them through the expectation machine to make sure they're getting straight A's and they're dressed well, and um, you know, um they're they're communicating and signaling to people, their peers, uh, the peers of the children, but then also teachers, um, the parents, peers, all of that.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

It's so funny, too, because you're talking about Gen X and millennials. Yeah. And that was always that was oh like this. And they were just the reality, it was just more vocal. They had more opportunity to be vocal about things, yeah, because they had platforms and stuff to be vocal about this. They could they could represent their emotions with commerce and track it. Yeah, but it it's just the same story, right? Is it the same goofy like 1940s parents and kid wants to rebel?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Now you can you can look at that situation and there's humanity there. There's humanity in a sense, like you can observe sort of the the the doubt, not the the the is it foibles? Is that the right word? The foible. What's what's how are you? The foibles of humanity, like sort of the the the the mistakes we make in misunderstanding the priorities. Um and there's humanity in that, but to me, in that situation where they've checked all the boxes um uh with these sort of metrics of success uh from a consumer-based culture, um, from you know, the as far as the American dream goes, I look at that as the humanity in that equation has been exercised, and all that's left as opposed to words on a page is just stuff in a house. It's just all just meaningless stuff. No, what's the point? What's the point? What's the point of it all? And so the thing that I really struggle with is you know, a desire for me to cultivate deep and meaningful relationships with my family members that aren't always obvious or apparent to observers, whereas observers could say, based on where we live, the status of our house, how our bathroom looks, the cars we drive, um, these different things, that, you know, they're not it doesn't really seem, you know, they got a little bit of debt, you know, with a mortgage and student loans. They just don't really seem like they've got it all together, that they're really, they're really where they need to be based on their talent, their abilities, their education background. You know, one spouse has a high-level job, the other one is, you know, self-employed and kind of doing this YouTube content creation, art business, commerce thing. Um, and that that is the dominant take-like I like your elevator pitch there. Yeah, that is sort of the dominant takeaway.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Yeah that there's sort of like a disappointment about where we are, where where it's interesting though, because like I don't I don't want to say yeah, I don't think that. Like I don't and I know all people don't, but I think I think some I think it's an interesting reflection though, too, of how you're you perceive the reaction. I think I how I know certain people perceive of it, and oh and I'm not saying that that's not I mean there's definitely people who just I mean I what I would say about that is just like those are people who have their priorities off, and those are the same people who you know they get diagnosed with a disease or something and they their entire life shakes underneath them because they realize oh my god, what is what have I been doing? What am I doing? Yeah, and that's the scariest you know, byproduct of what we're what we're doing here is kind of taking a lot for granted and we're well if if the not really respecting yeah if it the the finitude of this experience like this, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

And that doesn't mean that I think we should, you know, all emphasis should be on our relationships with, you know, my relationship with my kid, my wife, and like making sure that everything is, you know, as healthy as possible. You know, obviously there's fights, there's disagreements, there's, you know, somebody took this too far, they y used a poor tactic and trying to get what they wanted, all of that's that's the humanity, right? But the repair work is there, the the love, the romance, the um compassion, you know, all of that stuff. Um and if you, you know, and then the focus on that meaning, well, who cares about retirement, who cares about renovating the bathroom, who cares about these other things? It's not to say that that stuff isn't, doesn't play some role in the choices you make in your life. It's just not that every choice is sort of filtered through this idea of how is what I'm doing right now getting me the retirement fund that I need to be successful and secure when I'm 68 years old. Um and so I think that some of those observers of a family um who don't see those metrics being met, it's not easy to see when that family is successful in the marriage, in the relationship with their kids, um, the love that's there, the repair work that happens if there's an argument or a disagreement, the um deployment of self-awareness, the constant desire to try to improve, you know, uh who they are, how they relate with others, all of those things. It's like all of that is unobservable, and the only thing that is seen is what's lacking success, typical success metrics-wise. And um, and so when those things are sort of taken for granted, especially from inside the the relationship in some situations, um, you know, how do you how do you, and I'm not asking this, this is rhetorical, but you know, how how do people overcome that? And I I don't know that in a lot of instances they do. I think a lot of those relationships end in just a uh just a uh uh we are met, you know, uh diametrically opposed, we are oil and water, it's just not gonna work. Um for me to to feel secure and to feel happy, I have to remove myself from this relationship and um and either be alone or find someone that shares the same values as me. And even if I don't have the same depth of love and connection with that person, I'll I'll I'll be better off having these metrics of success met um even if even if my relationship isn't nearly as good and fulfilling as the one that I had with the person that was causing me insecurity.

A Rich Man With No Visitors

SPEAKER_04 24:49

Complete byproduct of a society that just has its focus on the wrong things, right? That's what you get when you like because you know it's hard to measure love on a spreadsheet. Yeah. It's very easy to measure your 401k on a spreadsheet. That's right. And so when you orient your entire world perspective around optimizing spreadsheets, yeah, then yeah, you're all of the things that are inconvenient for that are gonna get pushed to the wayside. And what is that? That's love, that's experience, that's beauty. All of the stuff that actually fucking gives this, you know, sliver of time we have any kind of quality and any kind of fucking purpose is all the stuff that gets tossed aside because that's because the spreadsheet is not important. The spreadsheet is it's i it's create it wants to create a f a sense of importance. It wants itself to be important. But and I the spreadsheet, yeah, that's a I don't know, that's a definitely like that's a I don't know if that's the best. I mean it is yeah, it's good, but it's just not like very creative. No, I mean it's charts and graphs and yeah, you know, um and all of that. And I and it it it's almost yeah, I don't know. Part of me is like, oh man, like how do you change that? And where people realize that, but I you know what, like that might just be the shitty cycle of you know what we what we kind of live in is if you don't recognize it, maybe you never you didn't deserve to recognize it. Yeah, and there have been plenty of people who have wasted away, and you know, at the end, does it even matter? Like, does it matter if you're you know if two people die, does it matter that one of them had a better experience? Yeah. Well, it matters when you're having the experience, but you know, at the end of the day, maybe not. But again, yeah, I think experience is cool, and I put a lot of value in like the things that are hard to hard to evaluate. I was um and you do too, obviously. Yeah, yeah. I mean that's why we connect so well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I was at uh a pick yesterday, and um and this will relate, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

So that's that's gonna be your bit. You need we need to get you like a show on the Discovery Channel. Uh I mean it's already been done.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

That's I know it's already been done.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

American Pickers is great.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

So this I I met this gentleman at a thrift store, and uh he chatted me up because he saw me looking through records and he saw my camera, and he um, you know, just just what uh seemed like someone who wanted to connect. And, you know, we chatted for 10-15 minutes, and he said, Well, you know, I have about 600 records at my house and some other things that you might be interested in, and I'm looking to kind of downsize some of my stuff. So if you're you know interested in taking a look at it, we can you know coordinate for you to come by the house. I just live a few miles from here, all that stuff. So I'm like, yeah, sure. Uh, you know, give me your number and I'll text you, and then you can text me back and we'll set something up. So we're gonna set something up. He had a fall and had to have some recovery time. Then he reached back out to say he's better and you know, you can come by. And we were in Okiboji, and I said, Well, let's look at Wednesday. It kind of slipped my mind. So he gave me a nudge via text, and I said, Yeah, if you're available, you know, 130 or whatever, I can come down. So drive down. And this gentleman has, you know, a second wife, um, met her uh a little bit younger than him, maybe 10-15 years younger than him. Very big house, three-car garage, you know, um just off a golf course down there. You it's very immediately apparent this person has, you know, upper, uh, you know, uh upper class, you know, um means. And so this gentleman starts giving me the tour. And I, you know, I'm thinking most of the time when I go on these things, I'm just we just kind of cut right to the chase. They want to make a few bucks, they take me to the pile of stuff that they, you know, want to get rid of. I take a look at it. How much do you want for it? Well, what do you think it's worth? You know, I'll pay you 50 bucks for it, you know, that whole thing, just a transaction. Well, this gentleman starts literally taking me through his entire house, uh, especially the areas that were most personal to him and showing me all of his collections, all of the things he's done.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

He wants uh he wants you to like, I mean, yeah, validate that thing that he's invested all of this time in at home.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah, that's awesome. He has a you know collection of baseball memorabilia, he has sort of um uh a collection of mementos from his service in the Air Force, and he was a fighter pilot, you know, Air Force Academy, all this stuff. And going from room to room, you know, Southwest and Native American stuff that he's collected, and you know, all these things, books and paintings, and he paints and he writes poems, but he was a lawyer and he, you know, was a fighter pilot, and he used to own a plane, and kids he took to a cabin in Colorado, and I mean everything. And I'm just happy to absorb all this stuff. And there were a few things that he mentioned, and this relates back to what we were just talking about, but there's a few things he mentioned, one being something I said that uh when looking at the records or something, you know, you know, you sure your kids don't want any of this stuff, you know, some of these things? Because he was sort of inviting me, like almost anything in the house, if I was interested in anything, you know, including the baseball stuff, whatever, you know, to let him know. And he said something that was sort of like, you know, my kids aren't getting anything, or something like my kids aren't getting any any of the money, or something like that, that there was something there that was not good. And I could be wrong, but that was the impression that I got. Um, and you know, and he had been divorced and and all that, um, and and married anew. They'd only been living in the house for four years. Um, and there just came to be this growing feeling. Oh, when I was leaving, he said something too like, um, you know, sort of like inviting me to come back if there was anything I thought of that I was interested in. And he kind of said uh to himself a little bit, you know, we don't get very many visitors. And he he was saying it was nice to visit with someone, you know, and there wasn't a lot of what I call visiting going on. And you know, he basically, even when I before when I was moving towards leaving, he's like, Oh, I just want to show you one more thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

Like audio tour.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Well, well, it was, but it was sort of um there there was to me was this sort of like I've lived this whole life and done all of these things and had kids and a family and all that, and I'm here alone with all of my stuff and nobody to share it with. And yes, he's married and his wife was there, and they seem to have a fine relationship and all that, but maybe beyond that, there wasn't that much more. Friends aren't coming around, family. Maybe even if they just live farther away, you know, they're not there. And so there's there was this, it was very obvious this person is very well-to-do. I mean, as a former lawyer, I don't know if he was a partner, owner of the law firm, or just worked there. He owned his own plane at some point. He talked about a home they owned in Texas and the cabin and all this stuff. And so he has all of this. And it comes down to the cameras and the records. And he's like, you know, for me, I'm like, well, how much do you want for all this? Kind of goes through the records, took a couple back that he wanted to keep and listen to, and he's like, he's like, I don't need any money. He's like, here's what you can do. I I would take a lot of this stuff just to the thrift store that I volunteer at. He's like, if you want to go in there and just make a small donation to the thrift store, he's like, it doesn't, you know, he's like, if this stuff is worth a lot of money, it doesn't have to be a lot, you know, like a$500 to the thrift store. He's like, just a small, simple donation to the thrift store. And like, and then you can just have it, do what you want with it. He was just sort of like happy that someone even like cared about this stuff to to want to take it. And granted, the majority of it, I'm probably just gonna sell and put it as revenue for the business and all that stuff, but it would there was just um, there was just a a sort of a not a sadness from him, but just a sadness of the situation. And again, I could be applying that narrative myself through just a few kind of little things, and it's not true at all. The the kids could come around every few months and they have a great time. I don't know, but I didn't get that impression. And so I think in the context of this idea of like, are you meeting all these metrics? This this man has blown past all of the metrics of success. He owns babe roof signed baseballs and Mickey Man, all this and all this stuff. He has all this, all these, these metrics of success. And I'm sitting there going, to me, the biggest success that you could have in life is missing. And I and I just sat there the whole time thinking, if I have no retirement savings, if I work till I'm 93 years old, repairing, you know, making content or writing articles or selling cameras on eBay or whatever I'm doing at 93 years old, if I wasn't good at contributing to my kids' college fund, if I drive a beat-up car, if I live in a modest apartment, you know, whatever my situation is when I'm that old, if I have my kids in my life, if I have friends like you and we see each other, um, if I'm rich in all of those aspects, this is where things really get corny here. But yeah, well, some no, I'm just kidding. But I'm like, that's all that I'm gonna give two shits about. 100%. I won't care that I don't have all that money or that big house.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

Nobody nobody who is chasing the other thing wants to hear this. Yeah. And you know, their justification is gonna be, yeah, well, that's what I would say if I wasn't successful too. So you're really just fighting against two, you know, completely separate views of the world. Yeah. And you're never gonna make leeway one way or the other. And you know, yeah, I I think yeah, I I mean I'm with you. I I agree with you completely, obviously. Um and I know we know people who would say that no, that's not important. Yeah. So and you know what, I those people I can still find, you know, I'm still friends with people like that. Like I I know several friends who I would probably have a hard time convincing that that's the that's the the real milk and honey of the situation.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

But and while going through this man took me through all of these things, you know, the baseball because you take any pictures? I you son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

I didn't because I feel like Matt, this is your photography. I know just you you're just describing exactly what is the subject matter that you are most interested in. Uh fucking fucking hey, man.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Well, I I knew though that I will most likely revisit this place.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

I would I would make it a point to I mean, even like befriend the guy. No, just to like not okay, that's that sounds really predatorial. I don't I don't mean it that way. Right. One, I'm sure he could use a friend, but two, that's just an incredibly interesting yeah, project.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Completely, especially because I've been photographing estate sales sort of after after the like at the end of the process. You know, the person has passed away, the company has come in, I'm there on a Sunday afternoon, there's scraps of things left and furniture's arranged in funny ways, and I'm taking photos of those things, you know, at the tail end of the whole process of the a person's life come drawing to a close. Uh and again, not necessarily their physical life, but their their life, you know, their items are being dispersed, they're being bought, uh, you know, all of that stuff. And this is literally someone who is thinking about their own mortality, they're looking to downsize their home. He's taking me through all of his most prized possessions and all the things he's accumulated and created in his life. The other thing, the third thing, and again, this is just my interpretation. It may not be the truth of the situation, but I'm I'm I'm fairly certain there is some element of truth to it. Just to what degree, I'm not sure. Didn't take me by a single photo of his family. Um, that didn't see one image of a kid. Uh, obviously, there were some items that represented that time in his life, a a sketch of a cabin that they went to um in the winter, skis and snowshoes that were representative of that time of his life. But everything seemed to really be centered around him and his experience of his own life. And again, there I'm sure were family photos in the house, but he did not make a point to show me any of them. It was as if all of the things that he has accomplished in his life, shared, paid for, bestowed upon his family, the opportunities that his hard work maybe provided them, all of that stuff. He really wanted to show me his life's work. You know, there was a photo of him from the war, there's a photo of him with his plane, maybe a picture where his wife was in the photo as well, his current wife. There was one thing that was a a reference to marriage, and he commented on his ex-wife or something, and it would there was some negativity surrounding not he wasn't like mean toward her, but uh it's hard to explain, but there was just sort of like that kind of stereotypical negative feeling toward the ex-wife kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Um but the like But but but but the feeling was Was the atmosphere definitely a little melancholy, or what was your I feel like it was.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

I feel like you know, I feel like this person, you know, felt that they worked hard their whole life and to be alone or to feel lonely, and I felt like the you know, seeing me in this shop was a moment to connect with someone, and then that connection felt good. You know, I listened, I was curious, I asked questions, I you know, there was something there, and I felt like this individual um, you know, wanted to share something with someone and uh and and maybe show show someone that all of this work that they had done in their life meant something. Yeah um and and and you know, I I think about all the stuff I have in my you know studio. Um I'm like I sit there and I go, how do I not end up meeting someone at the grocery store and saying I've got a lot of cool shit that I want to sell in my house and taking them through everything, um, and I'm just completely alone because of the choices I've made. Um, you know, he he at one point mentioned, you know, he wanted he he was talking about the legacy of his uh of the men and his family uh from you know the Civil War, kind of like that Gary Sinise moment in uh Forrest Gump, you know, all these people that participated in wars, and he was the last one. His kids didn't go into the military, and he seemed very disappointed with that, you know, and sort of like, well, they didn't want to go in there, and that there was like there's like a some like a little bit of shit there, yeah, you know. Um and is that that disagreement on what is expected of you as a kid, you know, to carry on this lineage of military in our family, you know, another ingredient in the estrangement aspect, if that is the case. So I I yeah, I just sit there and go, if I come away from my life where my kids are have a loving relationship with them, they're present in my life, they're there all the time, and I'm not, you know, connecting with strangers at a thrift store or grocery store and and hoping that I can share my life's work with them. You know, even to the point where part of me thought, God, what if you did just innocently become friends with this person? You know, they just had you had a connection across generations, you know, and there was just a connection there. And they were so moved by that connection that they they they they were like, you get you get it all. They bestowed it upon it.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

What's that country song?

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Yeah, right. The about the man at the bar or whatever. I certainly would feel uncomfortable with that, but it's like, but I would understand.

Self-Interest, Trust, And Inheritance

SPEAKER_04 43:05

See, I think that's interesting though, even that that's a thought. Like, that's so how we're wired for like self-preservation in a sense that you see. I know this is just like this is how your brain works. This is how my brain works too. Well, I'll I'll clarify narrative potential, yeah, more so than like, but it is an interesting like primal self-preservation kind of thing where you yeah, there's this person scenario, and you're immediately like, hmm. Like this is how you know, like that that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

The the thought really comes from more like writing stories.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

No, I uh in in Matt, like Matt was a screenwriter. Yeah, as anybody listening knows, if there's new context, right? This is like I I do want to make sure that like this is just and my brain works in a similar Way around just like, oh, we'll like take a mundane scenario where it's just like a little bullet point, and then we're webbing it out immediately. And we're like, oh, well, what if this happened and this happened and this happened?

SPEAKER_01 44:14

And how would my assessment of this person's state of being be externalized over time through a relationship with someone? No, 100%. And so not to make it.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

But I do think it's I do think it's also funny though, of like the pressure. Like it's a good representation of like the pressure of. Yeah, I mean, that's just where our like where a lot of people's mind goes. It's like, how can I benefit from this monetarily because of the pressure, even if it's not a like an actual thought experiment that is happening?

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah. Um, and you know, and there was a there was a benefit there. I mean, you know, I I don't know if this person intended from the onset to just give me all these things, but maybe because I took the time to listen and go through the house. How many records? You know, you know, he didn't have 600 records, he probably had a hundred or so, and I probably took maybe 30 of them. Yeah. Um, you know, and some of them I didn't take because they were in rough condition. The actual vinyl itself was pretty rough, you know. But these were records. So he like enjoyed these things. Yeah, they were records of his and his sister's. Um uh and then there were some new ones he must have bought or, you know, I don't know, grabbed from the thrift store if they showed up there because he was hoping to listen to them or something, you know. But but you know, he had stated early on that you know, he they're they're looking to downsize because this house, they're they're gonna be moving into a much smaller home. Um, and there's just simply too much stuff. I mean, literally, his life's work is in this house, and I don't mean like you know, there was original artwork paintings that he had done and all that, but then it's also just the treasures he has accumulated over the course of what I assume is close to 80 years. Um so well, you know, and just a uh I I know that we're on the same page with sort of extrapolating out the story of this from like a from like a novelist or a screenwriter point of view. Um and yeah, it is certainly possible that like a thought of someone in his position bestowing upon uh a new friend, you know, the the you know what they you know their money or their property or their things, um you know, certainly could bubble up from my own insecurities about um, you know, checking all the boxes success-wise. Um or just self-preservation in general. Yeah. Um, but mostly what I thought about was just sort of how uncomfortable I would feel in that situation, because the assumption I think from outsiders would be well, you obviously manipulated this person into and you you don't you're not actually friends with them. And then I would sit there and go, how could part of you not be doing that? Yeah. You know, like oh yeah, you know, there's uh there are certainly things I'm doing and behaviors that I exhibit with my wife because I hope she's gonna walk into a room and take off her clothes and we're gonna be intimate together, you know, like there's a manipulation going on there in a sense, because there's an outcome that is very beneficial to me. Yeah. Um and and sometimes it is like, look, you know, this is this thing, whether it's intimacy or financial or whatever, is incredibly like I am mostly thinking about myself in this situation. I am not thinking about being generous, I'm not thinking about being sacrificial, like I just want what I want. And in a situation like that, I think my thought was, Matt, be careful. You don't want to get into a situation where you let a relationship develop with this person because of that possibility. Now, I don't think it is. I'm not gonna like call the guy or text him or whatever, and be like, hey, like I'm I'm I'm in Plattsmith, let's hang out. Yeah, yeah. Get a beer together. Yeah, I've got three hours to kill. Show me more of your stuff, and let's continue to grow our relationship. But um, but I do think that the the storyteller in me who had the thought of that happening, part of the the birth of that thought was out of uh not a hope, but like a oh I wonder what what that would look like, but more of a fear that that something like that would be looked at in a sort of a sociopathic um pursuit.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

No, I I think um one I think so I don't think that like every decision, like obviously there's there's a lot of people and you know thinkers and things like that would say that all human motivations are just self-interested. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't necess I don't I don't think that's I don't think that's true. I think there's always like edge cases, and I think that you know a lot of the things that we talked about earlier, the unquantifiable things are the edge cases. And I also think that's part of the reason why those things are so important at a at a true, like a real level.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

Um but I do think there's a lot of self-interest in this world, yes, and we all have it, and we all yeah, find ourselves in situations or manipulating situations. You might not want to admit it, but it's there and you're doing it, and um obviously there's a hopeful outcome on certain things, especially when you get things like money involved or like I mean it's resources. If you put somebody in a you know, it's the monkeys lining up across the dead animal in 2001. Yeah. It's the same shit, different and different day. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, warring over resources is not a new phenomenon. Yeah, it'll be a thing that happens forever. Um and yeah, that monkey brain kind of activates when you get into a situation where the resource is apparent and you're like, yeah. And obviously, you're not like clubbing this guy over the head with a bone, but but you could say that you're psychologically clubbing, like that's the idea, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Well, and the the flip side from this from this person's perspective in that scenario of bestowing something onto someone, whether it was a prize possession or the whole the whole kit and caboodle, is this terrible fear that everything you worked for is just gonna go into the ether.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

Well, and then also the there's an interesting thing that um that comes with that one, there's the terrible fear of you know, a wasted whatever, but there's also the fear of not you like trust is and you hear this all the time, right? You hear this, you know, people the uh under the table agreement of like, hey, you know, I'm gonna marry a beautiful young woman and I'm older and she's gonna put up with it, but then you know she gets all of my stuff, or I'm gonna um you know, I or I'm gonna essentially um I I I find it hard to make new friends because I don't trust that they're not just using me for access to resources. Yeah, those are the probably the two most common um you know uh outcomes or you know, scenarios that I can think of. But yeah, I mean you you hear it all the time of like it it is it erodes the trust capability a bit, or it kind of you're starting from you're working uphill from the very start whenever you you're dealing with something like that. Yeah. Because yeah, like you know, maybe you're in there and maybe that his first thought is, Oh, is this guy trying to and maybe yeah, like maybe you went there and his first thought wasn't I'm gonna give him this stuff for free, and then it it was sort of earned or whatever, yeah. Or earnest, yeah. There was an earnestness to interaction where he was he felt it disarmed him a bit or whatever. You could also play that like you were doing that purposefully. I don't yeah, you don't Matt does this like a hundred times a week, I feel like, where he's in some stranger's house and he's you know often it's after they pass because I go to estate sales, but it's very rare.

Legacy Anxiety And Where Things Go

SPEAKER_01 52:51

You meet some cool people, yeah. 100%. But it it's this is one of the first ones where it was this sort of stage in their life that they're aware of their mortality. I don't know that this person is terminally ill or anything, I don't think so, but he knows he can't do it, he can't fly anymore, he can't he's having a hard time walking. He fell when he was on a walk and had you know some pretty bad injuries, nothing broken or anything, but needed time to recover. So you start to realize like, and if you're have some estrangement from your kids, or they don't give a shit about your baseball collection or whatever, like the first person that shows any interest in it, you're like maybe you're thinking, is it possible that this could go to someone who would really treasure it like I do? Yeah, yeah, you know, and and you know, we're going somewhere tomorrow night, right? We're going to the Joslin, and the photography exhibit may not be this, um, even though I do believe it's a collection that's on launch. Actually, incredible. But the entire new wing of that museum, um, uh a majority of it is occupied by a collection of abstract art that was built by a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04 54:06

I haven't told Matt this, but I'm actually a uh multimillionaire, and yeah, it's all going to him.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Incredible. I'm glad I put these six years of selfless giving to uh to you and our relationship to earn this for you to be the whole collection upon me. But that collection was from uh you know a lawyer who grew his wealth and invested in these art this artwork and created a relationship with the Jocelyn in order to donate it for it to sort of live on indefinitely.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

Just like the uh that's the same with the the new wing.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Yeah, that's what it meant. Yeah, this the abstract art in the new wing. Well, is this sorry? This I'm I reference we're going for the photography.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

I thought you were saying the photography is gonna be a permanent issue. No, no, no, no. Oh, that's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

The lawyer, the lawyer who owned the abstract art collection that's in the new wing.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

You you probably clarified that and I just missed it, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Yeah, and and sort of the his life's work in a sense lives on in the museum um uh indefinitely. And so that the the peace that you must feel when you know that that work is being carried on. And I have to imagine that for this gentleman, there is some un unsettling feelings that his life's work is sort of he's not sure what's gonna happen. His wife is much younger than him, at least it seemed to me. And um she may have no interested in holding on to it. Yeah, her the kids might have no interest in having any of it, or he may feel that they're not deserving of it. And then where do you go from there? Maybe it's not of the caliber to go to Cooper's town, you know.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

Um, maybe a few items are there's a chance it just all goes to Goodwill, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Or or the estate sale company takes care of it all and they they get some of the money, and then that goes into an account that's already from you know the things he intimated, flush with cash. And then what do you do? You can't take it with you. You who cares if you're the richest man in the graveyard. Um and so it's this odd place of conflict to me.

SPEAKER_04 56:19

There's a great there's a great song title. Uh I don't know if this is the title, but it's the main there's I've never seen a hearse with a trailer hitch.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Um so the the point being, you know, everything we talked about about the you know the pressures to um check these boxes and achieve these metrics of success in terms of wealth and savings and retirement and all of that stuff. While I understand all of that, I see someone who achieved all that, and I go, I would not want to be in your position.

SPEAKER_04 56:56

Story old as time, and maybe it's just because I'm looking for that story more than I'm not, but you always I regret it. I regret that I didn't I put all my time and energy into this thing, and it just didn't matter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Or or you know, I sort of achieved all that, but I'm left with this sort of um got it. I'm left with stuff in a house rather than the humanity um that I crave most, which is a deep connection with my kids and their families and a deep connection with my signific my spouse, which she seemed to have, even though he and his wife is he and his first wife are not together.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

I hope he has like the poetry of everyday life kind of prevalent in his life. I don't know if he does. And obviously, like the way the story's been presented, obviously you would make an assumption like, oh, probably not, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Well, I I think you know, uh you would hope. You know, if there was um if if if if insecurity, uh you know, a desire for security and checking these boxes and meeting these metrics of success was a big motivator in life. You know, get the house, get the savings, get the retirement, you know, all acquire the things, the cabin, the play, the second house, the airplane, you know, all of that stuff at the expense of the relationships, the love, the marriage that lasted, you know, all of those things, you achieve that security, but then when you're there, sis, you know, and oddly enough, he had a sort of um uh a wall commemorating all of the hikes that they had done that were to peaks above 14,000 feet, you know, he climbed that mountain, but then he's if you're up there all alone, what what does it, you know, what does it matter? So does a new insecurity come out of that, which is a lack of relationships that are meaningful beyond your your current wife and your life's work going into the ether. There's it doesn't it's not connected to anything you built or or a relationship that you had. And this idea to me of him thinking that we have a relationship, if I was to see him again, or you know, he invited me to you know see if there was more stuff I wanted to buy or or take, that that after all of that, an entire lifetime of that work, both with the family and the the material achievements, you know, that that I'm the port in the storm that fits the bill to you know, even if it's just a handful of records that I'm I'm given or a painting or whatever it is, that that I would provide some little sense of security that the things that he's worked his whole life to obtain. I'm gonna turn that off. That's the bug zapper. Oh, yeah. And it's raining. Nobody's gonna hear it with the magic of Auphonic. Um, but yeah, that that would sort of be the end game of it all. Yeah. You know, I don't expect my kids to want all my crap when I pass away, but this is an incredibly deep and Alex is fixated on the water hitting the bug zapper that you all can't hear because of the magic of Aphonic.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

Link in the description below.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:40

The humor is just like this is a tragic, you know, potentially true, like the most tragic outcome that it's doing. I'm Brian, bring it all home.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

You're being distracted. Yeah. An actor bringing the performance home, and there's just some dude sound going off.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

He's like, forgot to press record. We gotta go again.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

Bimbo in the audience. This guy's got the office theme song going off on the dude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

I'm gonna turn that off. Hold for bug zapper. Oh, cool, you can just unplug it. Nice. It's uh the rain's coming in sideways. Sweet relief.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:43

Oh my angle.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

Oh, did you you didn't you didn't check it? Did you even check? I didn't check my I didn't set this up. Look at that thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

I'm gonna be like, what the heck? Yeah, I never checked it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

Oh, Lone Star's on Denk. Oh man. I did too, but it's this is the beginning of it. If you're gonna fold it on. Did you even check that one? I did. It's raining right now. Oh man. Rain all day.

unknown 1:02:33

Oh yeah, you're getting money.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:35

Oh no. Your money. It's a it's just a bit at this point.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

I didn't even I just set it and sat down. I didn't even check it. Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

Priorities. To kind of like, yeah, to I mean, I don't think I have anything to add, and I don't want to like come in with some I just ruined it. No, I I do think that um have you seen this movie, by the way? No. This is Lone Star. It is very good. It's very good.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

I wonder if I have that VHS though at uh the shop. I feel like I do. It's very is it Matthew McConaughey in it?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:12

Yep. Yeah, I have it at the shop. It's um and Chris Kristoffson. Yes. Yeah, it's you should watch it. It's really good. Okay. Really, really good. Yeah, yeah. Good to know. Um movie night. Yeah, I I really I wanted to uh watch it with Audrey. Just Audrey. Well, just I was like I told her, so I the TCM schedule, I like they send it out every month. I'm like, oh I wanna watch this and watch this, and yeah, this is when I circled. I watched it for the first time like last year after I'd heard a lot about it for a while, and pretty damn good. It's it's really good, yeah. Good to know. Yeah, it's a good little pretty too, real pretty. Anyways, completely distracted here. But yeah. Yeah, John Sales is impressive.

AI And The Question Of Purpose

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

So from Camus to uh elderly man in uh Plattsmith, Nebraska to Ian Forester. TCM and oh yeah, that's right, Ian Forester. Yeah. See how that works? This is my daily. Don't exercise humanity from your life because it'll end up just being stuff in a building.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:32

I think, yeah, I think the the biggest thing is um it's kind of a crisis we've been building towards for a long time, and it AI might not put us anywhere, but it AI really just points out it really brings to the forefront the question of why am I doing this thing? And it's it we might just find a more sophisticated way to ignore it and to be like to just bliss out and forget that it's but it's I don't know if anybody else's experience is like mine, I think you're gonna start asking the question more and more of like what was the point of doing this thing in the first place? Right. And when the answer is not good, then you're gonna start being like, I need to find something that is worth doing. And you you know, you could say nothing's worth doing, but there's certainly some things that are more worth doing than others. And um I don't know, maybe I we'll probably just again if I had to pick, we're probably just gonna find more sophisticated ways to ignore the problem. Because that's kind of how we react to things as a society, as a distract ourselves. But um, you know, a really positive outcome would be kind of Starting to contend with the perspective of like why am I doing this in the first place? What's the point of this whole thing in the first place? Yeah. And then starting to build build back from that. But yeah, don't die in a house full of stuff that you can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

Yeah, don't die alone in a house full of stuff that nobody wants and or nobody that you cared about wants.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:28

Yeah. I guess is that better or worse than dying alone in a house full of nothing? Or a house with nothing when nobody cares about?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

I mean, I you know, I mean the cliche is, you know, you want to die in a house surrounded by loved ones, uh, you know, and if the house is empty, uh or it's not even a house, whatever it is, just being surrounded by loved ones that want to be there at your side rather than dying alone with all your with all the crap you have.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:56

Genuinely though, like is it like dying alone with a bunch of crap? Is that better than dying alone without? You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I mean it's obvious the answer is dying alone with a bunch of crap, because the crap is a neck, you know, negative thing. I I guess dying alone with your prized possessions, um, which is highly subjective, but um versus dying dying alone with very little. Yeah um I would hope you would die alone with very little because the things that even if it wasn't a lot of stuff, the things that you acquired in your life found meaning elsewhere. You know, for me, like this man did, in an ideal situation where I couldn't donate my collection of artwork to the Jocelyn Museum and it lives on indefinitely the way that I would want the things I cared about most to live on, using your stuff as an example, your IBM Selectric, your Leica M4, um, your watch, the silver band, you know, whatever, whatever are the things.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:29

I did tell Audrey if anything happens to me, yeah, go to Matt.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

He'll know what to do. I appreciate that. I've been working six years to try to get that M4. So the M6, goddammit.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

If I die of uh of mysterious causes.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

Um but yeah, that that that would be the hope.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

The podcast is not legally binding now. The hope would be that if you if you were aware that you reached a certain age where you're like, I I'm hanging on to this stuff in denial of the fact that my mortality exists and that not the end is near, but the end is is near. I would like personally to take the time to find someone who cared about it as much as I did. Um, that it wasn't being thrown up for sale in a garage sale, and some reseller is gonna be like, oh, that M4 is worth 2,500 bucks. I'm gonna take it and sell it, and just you know, it's gonna go to someone who cares about it, but you're not gonna know who they are or whatever. You know, my hope would be that the last sort of work that I did would be to find people who who cared about it and would use it, um and uh and and continue its story. I think this gentleman probably he probably assumed that I was keeping most of this stuff. Um, and while there are several albums that I am going to keep, again, the majority of it, I'm gonna move along.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

But again, I think that was his hope, but it wasn't my responsibility to to sort of declare my intentions, like um, or to sort of state, just so you know, I am a reseller. Like I meet people like you who want to get rid of stuff, I buy it, some of it I keep, a lot of it I sell. Anyway, when I look at all the stuff that I've accumulated, there are certainly cool items that you know, if if nobody wants my record player, it's not a big deal if I just like sell it in a in a big sale of stuff. Whoever wants it, you're a reseller. I don't give a shit, but whatever. Or like your computer. Yeah, but there are probably going to be a few items, a piece of artwork, a camera, whatever. Yeah, my grandpa's watch, where this ring? Yeah, where it's important to me. Look, children, if you don't want this, if it is not a meaning to you that's even remotely close to the level of meaning it has for me, I want to be able to find someone who can who have who feels that meaning. I have to imagine Annie, the woman we bought the Leica cameras from, and her and her mom, I spoke to her mom for a while, probably felt some really positive feelings, knowing that we most likely were going to be the ones who would own it for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

Yeah.

Objects With Stories That Matter

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Now you might change your mind. You might sell the Q2 because you know you have uh the M9 and the, you know, before I'd sell the M11, but you know, they they at least knew that they were going to people who cared about them. And I didn't end up getting the other one that I was going to flip. When she told me that she was the price, and I was like, well, there's some way to make money here, I was gonna buy it to flip it. Um, but she corrected herself, and most likely, I think it showed as sold on Facebook. That person who bought it was gonna use it. Yeah. So I think that's what this and she made a little more money, which is yeah, yeah, to help care for her dad who's still with us. But I think this gentleman is in a state of I have all this stuff, the end is close, and I want it to go to people who will care about it. And I was one of them. And he certainly was very clear that if there's anything else I'm interested in to let him know. And I think that could have included the baseball stuff, you know, whatever. So we'll see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:52

I don't know. What um just it's interesting too, because then you have all this stuff and it is meaningful to you, but then like to us, it's like, oh well, okay, it's like baseball memorabilia, right? Yeah, it's like cool, right? I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:12

Like now, if he had like I don't know. I get part of that is just me speaking too. Yeah, I'm not a fan of obvious, I'm not a big fan of memorabilia. Sure. I'm just not a big fan of like collecting in general. Yeah. Um, so maybe that's that perspective coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

Cubs mug doing over there, buddy. That's memorabilia. This is gonna get a nice patina. It's usable memorabilia. No, I'm just giving you a hard one. No, for sure. I mean, I'm not your growing sports memorabilia collection.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:44

Yeah, yeah, it's really getting big. Mug my buddy sent me. But I mean, even though, like, that it's it's a good point. Like, my buddy, shout out to he'll probably see this. Um, shout out Casey. Like, this mug, like it means more to me because he bought it. Yeah, and he took it home with him, and he packaged it up, yeah, and he mailed it. And he was like, Oh, I hope it doesn't break in the mail. Yeah, and like he sent me this mug and a little bit of tobacco that to try. And so now, and he he's gotten me a mug in the past and it's in it's in there still. Uh, I I use it once a week, probably. Yeah, every time I drink out of it, I think of him, and now every time I drink out of this, I'll and so that's special to me. Yep. And this says a story beyond if I just went on eBay and bought a Cubs mug.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Or got a Andre Dawson baseball from a guy whose house you visited. Hundred percent.

Preserving Meaning Before The End

SPEAKER_04 1:14:40

Yeah. So I mean, yeah, like I just I like things that have a little bit of a story to them, and especially if that story is connected to something personal. I mean, like the God bless our mole. Yes, yeah, it's great. The little Lexus pin that's in the car, like well, and and that just little stuff like that is super meaningful in a way that like that. My dad made that, right? You know, yeah, it's like a cool little thing. Um, the two masks, the the middle one and the bottom one. My my coach gave me, my high school running coach gave me that one. My mom gave me the top ones. This one I got from in Haiti. Um, I mean, yeah, it's just I like having little stories. Agreed. Um, yeah, I don't know. It's just uh yeah. I don't know, it just like adds to the quality of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:38

I completely agree. And and for this gentleman, it was important to him, and uh you know, he and he has a lot of it. Uh one interesting thing he did, not to keep extending this. Yeah, we just like I know keep fainting the fainting the wrap up, but he um at the thrift store there would be books that would come in where the binding was damaged or destroyed, and there's a woman in Plattsmith who re-binds books, and so he would take these books that it could be a children's book, um whatever it was, and he pays for this woman to put new bindings and put a title on it on the spine and the front and all that stuff. I know I have a photography book where the binding's all messed up, and if she can fix the binding rather than re-bind the book, bound the book.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:29

Um it'd be even cooler though if you just got a new binding, yeah, like custom. I feel like that'd be pretty sweet. Obviously, your resell value's gone, but I don't think you're using these photography books for like no resell.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:41

I would hope that she could keep the cover if she had to take it apart and re-glue it because the cover's not damaged, it's just the adhesive that binds the edge of the pages to the inside of the cover is separated, yeah. So it's all floppy and loose and there's a lot of books I could I could see getting just custom bound. Yeah. So he showed me all these books that he had paid to have rebound. Like looking around, like what kind of thing? I know. Yeah. And that's meaningful to him. The money he didn't care about, he cared about saving, saving these books. Just all kinds of little fascinating moments in that situation. And um uh I do hope to go back with the camera and uh document some of that as part of the overall project that I've sort of just I didn't think about it when I started doing it, but I uh started feeling compelled to take photos at some of these estate sales, and I wanna wanna continue to find the moments where that happens and get and get a portrait of of this man. Yeah. Um would would be important.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:45

One thing I just noticed is uh this episode is brought to you by Lasco. Lasco?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

I thought it I thought it was Alphonic. Oh, yeah. Lasco. Lasco fans and Alphonic to drown out the sound of the fan.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:58

Prominent in your shot, and that is gonna be Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:02

It will probably impact Lasco sales like um ET impacted the sales of Reese's pieces.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:07

It's definitely gonna be in every one of Matt's shoulder shots for the next what four or five months, probably.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

Yeah, just a fan growing out of my head.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:18

When it starts to get to like 90 outside when we're doing these, it'll probably be on too.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:22

So yeah, and Alex shots will be so poorly composed that's back at me for putting a fan behind it. It'll be a quarter of my face and this general area of the frame for this angle. Oh god, I'm so stupid. See, and this is my problem. I sometimes get so fixated on just like getting started that I just don't even pay attention to the angle and it's to your detriment, my friend.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:50

Do you wanna do you wanna call the phone and just hear the ring to get us out of here? So I think Matt likes this phone more than I do. I love this phone. I've I've talked on it a lot this week.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:01

Well, it's because it's you know, it's my childhood was was that phone ringing. So good. Don't drown it out, Aphonic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:19

Pleasant. It is pleasant. Pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:23

It had been a golden afternoon, and I remember having the familiar conviction that life was beginning over again with the summer experience.